Garden Conversation , Los Angeles , 1972-06-25

Devotee (1): Is there any questions?

Atreya Ṛṣi: I have a question. Kaṁsa's attitude, he's a demon, and when a daughter is born, he first changes his mind. Throughout this story Kaṁsa changes his mind several times back and forth.

Similarly, Vasudeva, when Kaṁsa is favorable towards him, and also Yaśodā, they both change and excuse their brother and brother-in-law. How is this similarity, the change of attitude?

Prabhupāda: Who ex...

Atreya Ṛṣi: They excused Kaṁsa. [break] ...they forgave him when Kaṁsa decided not to kill the daughter.

Prabhupāda: No?

Atreya Ṛṣi: The devotee...

Prabhupāda: He, he killed the daughter.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But the daughter slipped up there in the sky. [break] He could not kill the daughter. He attempted, but he could not.

Devotee (2): Prabhupāda, was Kaṁsa..., was he aware all of this time that he was a devotee?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (2): Was he aware this entire time that he was a devotee? He said that... I remember reading that he was a devotee.

Prabhupāda: Whatever he might be, nobody remembers what he was in his past life.

Lady devotee: Is the girl child, is that Subhadrā?

Devotee (1): Talk louder.

Lady devotee: Is the girl child, is that Subhadrā?

Devotee (1): Was the girl child...?

Devotee: [explaining] The female child, was that Subhadrā?

Prabhupāda: No, Durgā. She was Bhadrā, not Subhadrā. Bhadrā is material energy, and Subhadrā is spiritual energy.

Devotee (3): Why did the demons come to harass the saintly persons and shorten their duration of life?

Devotee (1): Can you say it louder?

Devotee (3): Why did the demons come to harass the saintly persons and shorten the duration of life?

Atreya Ṛṣi: [explaining] Why did the demons come to harass the saintly persons?

Prabhupāda: Answer. You answer. Answer this question, anyone.

Devotee (4): The glories, all of Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, they are such that...

Prabhupāda: His question is different.

Devotee (4): What is it?

Devotee (3): Why did the demons come and harass the saintly persons and shorten their life?

Devotee (4): Which..., in what relationship? Where... I'm not sure what it means...

Devotee (3): The demons were sent by Kaṁsa to harass the saintly persons.

Devotee (4): Yes, that's their purpose.

Devotee (3): Why?

Devotee (4): That...

Atreya Ṛṣi: This material world, there are demons, and then there are saintly persons. This is the nature of the material world. And Kṛṣṇa comes. The demons want to forget Kṛṣṇa, and that's their job.

Prabhupāda: Demons means who harass saintly persons. That is the definition of demon. Demons means one who harasses saintly persons and who does not believe in God. This is the definition of demon. So there is a class of men always who do not like saintly persons and do not believe in God. So they are demons.

Dvau bhūta-sargau loke daiva āsura [Bg. 16.6]. There are two kinds of men = daiva, asura; demon and demigod. Viṣṇu-bhakto bhaved daiva asuras tad-viparyayaḥ. Those who are devotees of the Lord, they are called demigods, and those who are opposite number, they are called demons. The whole world is full of demons; still there are little percent of them are devotees. Otherwise the material world is full of demons.

Devotee: [in background] All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. All glories to saṅkīrtana. Come join the saṅkīrtana party.

Devotee (3): The demons' business is to harass the devotees? They do nothing else?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (3): The demons, they do nothing else except harass the devotees?

Prabhupāda: Demons means who harasses devotee. That is demon. Anyone who harasses devotee, he is demon.

Devotee (5): Is Rohiṇī also a wife of Vasudeva?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Atreya Ṛṣi: [explaining] Is Rohiṇī a wife of Vasudeva?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Atreya Ṛṣi: She is.

Prabhupāda: So, Kṛṣṇa, Balarāma and Subhadrā, there are different mothers; father one.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Prabhupāda, since the birth of Kṛṣṇa, in the past few thousand years there are many stories about different people, in Greek story, in literature, even the birth of Moses, which exemplify in some way or another stories of Kṛṣṇa. Is there any relation?

Prabhupāda: There is... They have taken all these stories from Purāṇas. After all, these system, Greek civilization, they are within three thousand years.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's time is five thousand years. So there is possibility of taking these stories from Kṛṣṇa's life. The word Kristo is there in Greek dictionary. Kristo. And the meaning is "anointed face" or something like that. So Kṛṣṇa was known. And from Kristo the word Christ has come. That is explained in that Aquarian Gospel. So it appears that Kṛṣṇa was known. Formerly, all over the world the Vedic system was current. So Kṛṣṇa was known.

Devotee: Prabhupāda, before Lord Caitanya, for instance from the period after Kṛṣṇa's birth up until the appearance of Lord Caitanya, what was, ah, what was the bona fide method for, ah... [break]

Prabhupāda: ...is current. Vedic [indistinct] is not new. Caitanya Mahāprabhu re-introduced it with new vigor, that's all. Otherwise it is not new introduction. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ. Find out.

Devotee (1):

satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ
yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ
namasyantaś ca māṁ bhaktyā
nitya-yuktā upāsate

"Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion."

Prabhupāda: So the chanting is long before Kṛṣṇa appeared. Kṛṣṇa [indistinct] all around. Caitanya Mahāprabhu revived it again. It is not a new thing.

Devotee: So up until Lord Caitanya it wasn't very widely known. Is that...?

Prabhupāda: It was known, but He specifically propagated. The ācārya never introduce anything new. It is already there. But according to time, they take up the... Just like doctor. A doctor, medical practitioner, he knows many medicines, but for a particular type of patient, he prescribes a medicine. It is not that the new medicine is invented for him. It is already there in the stock. But the experienced physician knows what kind of medicine will be suitable for this patient, so he gives that. It is like that. Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. There is no other alternative. That means there are other alternatives, but they are not active. So all these methods are already there, but this chanting method is especially suitable for this time. That is the special introduction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Lady devotee (2): When did Nārada Muni come with the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra to this planet? And how is that...?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Lady devotee (2): When Nārada Muni came to this planet and introduced the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra?

Prabhupāda: I said there is no question of introduction. It is already there.

Lady devotee (2): It's always...

Prabhupāda: Always there. Just like in the... [break] Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ [Bg. 9.14]. So when Kṛṣṇa says satataṁ, satataṁ means always. What is the meaning of satataṁ?

Devotee (1): "Always."

Prabhupāda: Always. Just like the sun is always there in the sky, but it appears in the morning. It is not that morning creates the sun. The sun is already there. You'll see in the morning, that's all.

Lady devotee (2): So Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, is it new to us as living entities?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Lady devotee (2): Is it new to us as living entities?

Prabhupāda: New? No.

Lady devotee (2): So we have known it always.

Prabhupāda: It is always existing, that I've explained. Nothing is new.

Atreya Ṛṣi: For us as well, we knew it? We knew the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra?

Prabhupāda: That is up to you. How can I say it? [laughs] So many things there are. Whether you knew or not knew, I cannot say. [chuckles]

Lady devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda, when Vasudeva was talking to Nanda Mahārāja, he said we're like seaweed. We come together..., they come together in the ocean, and then we become separated after a while. So in Kṛṣṇa consciousness sometimes it is said that we are packed up tight in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but these other devo...

Prabhupāda: That example is for material world. In the material world... Just like we are assembled here. Every one of us had our father, mother, family, but where are those families? Just like my family is in India, your family somewhere else. So we are scattered.

So that example is given. Just like in the river some straws gather together, again another wave comes and it is all scattered. We are similarly, in the ocean of time, we are simply gathering and sometimes dispersing, that's all.

Atreya Ṛṣi: In Śrīmad Bhāgavatam there is a very beautiful example = "As by the sweet will of the player the playthings are put together and again dispersed..."

Prabhupāda: There are so many examples.

Atreya Ṛṣi: "...again by the sweet will of the Lord..."

Prabhupāda: Nothing is settled up here in this material world. But spiritual world everything is settled up.

[Prabhupāda says something indistinct about the water in a fountain]

Devotee (1): There is no circulation. There should be some sort of pump to circulate the water and filter it. It's just stagnant, just sitting there.

Atreya Ṛṣi: This is very much like Muslim countries. In the Muslim countries they keep some water, because Hazrat Muhammad said that if water is this long or this wide, it's clean. So they do not understand. They keep that much water in their homes and they think it's clean, and they always bathe in it, and it stinks, it smells.

But they still think it is clean, because Muhammad said that much water is clean, purifying. Like in every home in Iran, in the Muslim countries, they have a little water like this which is green and smelly, and they go and drink it.

Prabhupāda: Rotten water, they drink?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes, because in the Koran Muhammad says that... Because in Arabia there is no water, so Muhammad explained that if you come across some water which is this big, you should take a bath; it's cleansing. Because the Arabs used to take no bath.

So Muhammad encouraged taking baths and cleanliness to his disciples. But now today's disciples don't understand that. There is plenty of water, but they keep some water in their home like that just to take bath. And it smells, but they wouldn't... They would consider nonbelievers dirty. If you come to their home, they would want you to wash in there first, if you don't believe in... [laughter]

Lady devotee (2): Prabhupada many Kṛṣṇa's have the same type of attitude towards religion. How is it that we can right thing to do [indistinct]?

Prabhupāda: Answer.

Devotee (1): What is their attitude?

Devotee: [in background] Haribol, prabhus.

Lady devotee (2): [indistinct] They think they are following Christianity. They think they are following the teachings of Christ, but they really aren't. They really don't even know what the teachings of Christ are.

Atreya Ṛṣi: So chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee (1): Then they're not Christians.

Lady devotee (2): Yes, but they say, you know, that "I'm already Christian. I already have my religion, so how is it [indistinct]."

Devotee (1): Let them know that we're not against their religion and that we're not, not Christians. Tell them, "Yes, that's good. But your love of God can always increase, you know."

Atreya Ṛṣi: The fact is...

Devotee (1): You only scare them away by making them think that we're another team, you know. There's no set..., there's no set way you're gonna do it. You've got to just use your intelligence with each case. Each person's different. But just don't scare them. Try to get them to come, you know, eat prasādam. [laughs]

Atreya Ṛṣi: But factually we are the only Christians. They are not Christian, because they do not...

Devotee (1): That's what we have to understand.

Atreya Ṛṣi: And we have to show them.

Devotee (1): We have to actually understand that they are not actually Christians. If we think that they are Christians, see, then we're falling into their illusion. They're thinking that they are Christians, but actually... The real meaning of Christian means one who is serving God. He's christened; he's a medium.

Prabhupāda: Christian, according to that Aquarian Gospel, Christian means Kristoian. Real Christian means Kṛṣṇian, Kṛṣṇian. Not Christian but Kṛṣṇian. They are Christian, real Christian. Actually Christian is a diverted word from Kṛṣṇian.

This is the fact. The Kṛṣṇian by perverted form is Christian. There is authority in the Aquarian Gospel. Actually we are... The original word is Kṛṣṇian or Kristian. Kristoian or Kristo. The word is coming.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Christ has come from the word Kristo, and Kristo is a perverted word of Kṛṣṇa. So actually the word is coming from Kristo, and Kristo is Kṛṣṇa. Even in India still, Kṛṣṇa, one's name is Kṛṣṇa, he is called Kristo.

My younger brother was named Kṛṣṇa. So we were calling him Kristo, Kristo. That is common. So from Kristo, Christ has come. Christo. From Kristo---Christo; from Christo---Christian.

Devotee (1): Under the heading of Christian there are still the two classes of men, demons and devotees. So anyone who is actually sincere about learning to love God, if we simply present Kṛṣṇa consciousness to them they'll take it, eventually.

And if they are a demon, then they won't take it. Then we must avoid them. If somebody is so demoniac that when we preach to them they won't accept, then we just have to move on. But if someone is really sincerely trying to follow Lord Jesus, then there won't be anything he can do but come.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Lord Caitanya and Śrīla Prabhupāda are so merciful that they have picked up many demons, made devotees.

Devotee: Also possible, but...

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But when Vasudeva, ah, carried child Kṛṣṇa to Mother Yaśodā's house, why didn't he make recognized to Mother Yaśodā about the change of the child, the two children?

Prabhupāda: She was sleeping. [laughter] He [she] did not know.

Devotee: Jaya Prabhupāda!

Prabhupāda: Your answer is there. [laughter] It is stated that out of child labor she was fatigued, and she was sleeping. So simply changed. Sometimes in hospital they change. You know that? In hospital many babies are born. So doctors take bribe, they change, male child into female. One who has given male child, and by trick they change.

Devotee: Is that in India or America, or where?

Prabhupāda: In India. In America maybe. I do not know. So this male child, female child changing is a long practice. It was the desire of Kṛṣṇa to come to Yaśodā.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Jaya!

Prabhupāda: It is the supreme arrangement.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Jaya!

Prabhupāda: Childhood pastime of all parents, it is very pleasing. So Mother Yaśodā was fortunate that she could enjoy the childhood pastimes of Kṛṣṇa, whereas Devakī, although Kṛṣṇa was her real son, she could not enjoy. Therefore Mother Yaśodā is considered more fortunate than Devakī.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Jaya! [end]