Room Conversation , Delhi , 1971-12-06

Prabhupāda: ... [indistinct], do not try to understand by your rascaldom arguments. It's not possible, therefore it is acintya—take the version as it is stated in the Vedas. That is our position.

Pañca-draviḍa: You also give the example about the frog in the well.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pañca-draviḍa: And the scientists they have in some way they have measured what a frog sees. And they say that a frog cannot... The frog sees only movement. Like a frog's eyes are equipped that they can see the movement of a fly. If a fly goes past it's eye it sees that movement it catches the fly but anything larger than the movement of the fly a frog cannot see.

Prabhupāda: Ah, suppose you are a frog then how you can understand God?

Pañca-draviḍa: Cannot even understand man.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so you are no better than a frog.

Pañca-draviḍa: Hm.

Prabhupāda: Everything is limited, this is my family, this is my country, this is my nation, so you cannot see anything more than there. Or you can see utmost this is your planet and beyond that you cannot see.

Pañca-draviḍa: Hm.

Prabhupāda: Even though... Or even if you understand it, that is not possible. If you're individual but there are millions of universes you do not. What is going on in that universe. You do not know even what is going on in other planets. Just like you are seeing the planet sun god as sun planet. But you do not know how with such temperatures the living entities can live there.

Devotee: Hm.

Prabhupāda: But they live, Huh? They live. Why? What. Where is the difficulty to understand? Suppose if the sun planet is fire, this fire, so fire is one of the material elements, bhūmir āpo 'nalo [Bg 7.4], analaḥ means fire. So bhūmir means that you see there are living entities on the lake, āpaḥ—water there are living entities in water. So why not living entities in the fire? This is also material.

Pañca-draviḍa: When the, when the..

Prabhupāda: And if you say that, "in fire everybody can live." No. Nobody can live you cannot say, it must be suitable for the fire, just like the fish live in the water. The body is suitable, similarly if you get a suitable body to live in the fire you can live. This is scientific, how you can conclude that there cannot be any living entities? Living entity identity is spiritual.

Devotees: [indistinct]

Prabhupāda: Nainaṁ chindanti śastrāṇi, nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ [Bg 2.23], living entity it is not burned. Neither it is moistened, neither is it dried up but this material action does not affect, asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ [Bṛhad-āraṇyaka Up. 4.3.16]. This puruṣaḥ the living entity has nothing to do, it never mixes with the material element it is only body encagement.

So if somebody has got earthly encagement, somebody has got waterly encagement, why not a fire encagement? Airy encagement. Ether, ethereal encagement they are different matters only. So these rascals they do not understand, we have to preach them. This is science, nature. This is understanding.

Pañca-draviḍa: Sometimes we have experienced that some people are able to call spirits from the dead.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Pañca-draviḍa: They are able to talk to people who have passed away they…

Prabhupāda: This is all nonsense, we don't believe in this.

Pañca-draviḍa: They cannot come.

Prabhupāda: You won't find this anywhere in śāstras.

Pañca-draviḍa: But the śāstras speak of ghosts.

Prabhupāda: Ghost is another thing it has got no body.

Pañca-draviḍa: But sometimes these mediums.

Prabhupāda: He's subtle body, he's got subtle body not this gross body.

Pañca-draviḍa: Sometimes these mediums they are able to contact ghosts and carry on conversations.

Prabhupāda: So what is there? Very important.

Pañca-draviḍa: No, but I was wondering is there anybody who has this power to be able to see the living entities in fire? Is there anybody in this world.

Prabhupāda: What is the use if even you see?

Pañca-draviḍa: Hm.

Prabhupāda: Simply knowing is sufficient, just like you see the water there is a living entity, everyone knows it. What more you want to know? And what benefit you will derive?

Pañca-draviḍa: No benefit.

Prabhupāda: [indistinct]

Pañca-draviḍa: Just curious.

Prabhupāda: Every, sarva-gataḥ [Bg 2.24]. The living entity can live anywhere either in the fire, or the air, the earth, or water, anywhere, sarva-gataḥ. Therefore it is known as the senses. How it is possible that you can see that the other living entities. The fish is living in the water but you cannot live. And the fish cannot live on the land that is the nature's creation a particular type of body lives in a particular place. What is the difficulty?

The pig can eat stool but you cannot eat, so there are different varieties of living entities with varieties of material ingredients. And by God's arrangement and nature's arrangement they are there, so much you can do, what else you can do? Your power of knowledge is limited, how it is known, how it is living, how it is possible that is not difficult that is not possible. Neither you can know it, it is not possible.

Pañca-draviḍa: But these things are known to the yogī's?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Pañca-draviḍa: Is a yogī able to perceive these things?

Prabhupāda: Yes to some extent, just like we know to some extent, they know to some extent, everybody knows to some extent.

[break]. This knowledge you can take from any conversation. [indistinct] all our senses are imperfect. The yogīcan be able to know at once but your senses. It is not possible. It's an awkward condition, just like a pilot his knowledge is little more than you. He knows how to fly in the sky but that does not mean he has become perfect.

[indistinct] perfect knowledge. He may be a little advanced than you but that does not mean that he is perfect.

[break] Degrees of knowledge, standard of knowledge, just like animals knowledge, dogs knowledge and your knowledge that is different. So your knowledge and the scientists knowledge that is different. That does not mean because one is advanced little than your knowledge he has become God. That is not, or he can show some magic therefore he has[indistinct]. Nobody can show better magic than God. This is Kṛṣṇa says:

atha vā bahunaitena
kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna
viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam
ekāṁśena sthito jagat

You know this verse? You have to read. These are better than knowledge.

Devotee: What is the verse?

Prabhupāda: Read it.


atha vā bahunaitena
kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna
viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam
ekāṁśena sthito jagat

"But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe."

Prabhupāda: Simply taking shelter of breathing of Mahā-Viṣṇu all these big big Brahmās they live. So just imagine what He is. And Brahmā's life age you cannot, you cannot calculate one minute even. And all these Brahmās live only during the breathing period of Viṣṇu. When Viṣṇu breathes [indistinct] all the Brahmās come out and when He inhales all the Brahmā's go in.

Viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā-viśeṣo,
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ

[Bs 5.48]

[break] …that they cannot understand the simple things. They are thinking always

[break] western civil. [break] then somebody picks up hundreds of thousands of [indistinct], this is not good. We are chanting to satisfy Kṛṣṇa not for economy.

Gurudasa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This should be the principal.

Gurudasa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: If.. It is just like music, that somebody is performing musical performances and it is [indistinct].

Gurudasa: I, I…

Prabhupāda: I mean it is a defect. It is, the kīrtana is performed for satisfying Kṛṣṇa not for satisfying the public. This should be always remembered.

Gurudasa: Hm.

Prabhupāda: One should chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra in certain ecstasy so that immediately his connection with Kṛṣṇa is made. Not that I am chanting something nice music, so hearing my music the public will be satisfied. This is wrong conception.

[break] It's for pleasing Kṛṣṇa.

Gurudasa: Hm. It's not public sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: [indistinct] [break] what [indistinct] charges for a one page, go [?].

Gurudasa: I'll find out.

Prabhupāda: Yes these kind of advertisements are... Therefore I say if you put this poster very high it will be on view.

Gurudasa: Hm. [break] yes.

Prabhupāda: That is workers department. Know about the head.

Gurudasa: Hm. This Mādhava Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: They will find out all these pitfalls, that is their business. Bhakti [indistinct] crime they will find out what is the source of this. What is [indistinct] but Brahmā is called Dumbhi.

Gurudasa: Dumbhi.

Prabhupāda: Where is Dumbhi? This is the difference.

Gurudasa: Hm.

Prabhupāda: This class of men they have simply to find out God.

Gurudasa: Hm.

Prabhupāda: All classes of living entities that is [indistinct] sadjana gunam sankirt[?].Those who are helpless men they see only what is required is nice cottage and those who are lower class of men they simply find cottage. The example is given [break] [indistinct] find that verse [break].

Gurudasa: I already told him. Was it yesterday?

Devotee: He knew it. Last night they knew that you. That it wasn't right [?].

Prabhupāda: All this is done for musical performance.

Devotee: Yes. [end]