Discussion with BTG Staff , Boston , 1969-12-24

Prabhupāda: This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is composed of four different stages. The first stage is to understand the relationship with Godhead, or Kṛṣṇa. Because the conditioned souls at the present moment, they are forgotten self. They have forgotten their relationship with Kṛṣṇa.

Actually the relationship is there, eternal, but under the influence of māyā he is thinking that "I am something of this material world," identifying himself with this body. So we have to awake them from that illusory existence, what he is not.

The whole mistake of the modern status of life... I don't say modern civilization. This is coming up since the creation of this material world. Sometimes it is in greater degree and sometimes in lesser degree. In Satya-yuga the same condition, but in lesser degree.

But in Kali-yuga the condition is in greater degree. So the first business is to awake the conditioned souls from their illusory position, that he is thinking, "I am this body, and anything in relationship with this body is very important." Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. This is illusion.

[The attraction between male and female is the basic principle of material existence. On the basis of this misconception, which ties together the hearts of the male and female, one becomes attracted to his body, home, property, children, relatives and wealth. In this way one increases life's illusions and thinks in terms of "I and mine."]

We speak of illusion, māyā. This is illusion, that "I am this body, and anything in relation of this body..." I have got special relationship with certain woman, so I think, "She is my wife. I cannot do without her." Or another woman from whom I have taken birth, "She is my mother." Similarly father, similarly sons. In this way, country, society, at the most, humanity. That's all. But all these things are illusion, because they are in bodily relationship. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13].

[One who identifies his self as the inert body composed of mucus, bile and air, who assumes his wife and family are permanently his own, who thinks an earthen image or the land of his birth is worshipable, or who sees a place of pilgrimage as merely the water there, but who never identifies himself with, feels kinship with, worships or even visits those who are wise in spiritual truth—such a person is no better than a cow or an ass.]

Those who are passing on on this illusory condition of life, they are compared with the cows and the asses.

So our first business is to wake up the general mass of people from this illusory condition of life. So Back to Godhead is specially meant for that purpose. We are pushing on Back to Godhead to the general mass of people to the first condition, first status of enlightenment. And then those who are becoming enlightened, coming forward, that "Swāmījī," or "The Society, please make me a member. Please initiate me," he is coming forward, understanding his position. So that is second stage, to train him how to awaken his..., that dormant love of God. That is another stage, training. Sambandha abhidheya.

Then, when he is actually in love of Godhead, then he can understand the higher status of loving exchange between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa and the Vṛndāvana. This is third, third stage, yes. And the fourth stage is paramahaṁsa stage, who is always enjoying. Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Brahma-saṁhitā 5.38].

[I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who is Śyāmasundara, Kṛṣṇa Himself with inconceivable innumerable attributes, whom the pure devotees see in their heart of hearts with the eye of devotion tinged with the salve of love.]

Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti... When one is completely merged in the ocean of love of Godhead, he will relish in any condition of life Kṛṣṇa, present. "Kṛṣṇa present" means, "Kṛṣṇa present," His name present, His form present, His līlā present, His paraphernalia present. Everything. Kṛṣṇa is not alone. We are not impersonalist. As soon as we say "Kṛṣṇa," Kṛṣṇa means which His name, fame, opulence, entourage, pastime, etc.

So Back to Godhead generally deal in two stages of understanding: the..., to awaken the relationship and to train them. Although our aim is... That is our aim, to come to the highest platform of loving exchange. But generally, we are dealing with the mass of people. Therefore our propaganda should be how to, by reasoning, by philosophy, by science, by argument, how to convince him that he is in illusory stage.

These politicians, these scientists, these philosopher, they have no other, advanced knowledge except the human being. That's all. Their ultimate goal is that if they can do something, humanitarian work, welfare work to the... The Vivekananda, or the Aurobindo, or this, what is called, the Russell, or Romain Roland and so many, they are coming. And the yogīs, they are trying to be self-satisfied by meditation. But nobody is concerned with God, or Kṛṣṇa. Nobody is concerned. This is the position of the world.

So under the circumstances, our first business is how to awaken people from this illusory condition, that he is thinking, "I am this body," or the most well-being is taking care of this body or bodily relationships. So we have to take out from that illusory condition. So that should be the policy of our Back to Godhead. And the, so far the editors are concerned, they are supposed to know all these conclusions.

Now we have got two editors, Hayagrīva and Satsvarūpa. I believe both of you know the conclusion which I am trying to push on within this movement. So you should work cooperatively in such a way that you don't deviate from the policy, and conjointly, consulting together, so that I may be relieved from petty minor things. But if there is some difficulty, I am at your service. Now what is the difficulty at the present moment?

Hayagrīva: Well... [break] So we want to discuss content first? I have a list. Do you have a list, Satsvarūpa?

Satsvarūpa: I have a different list.

Prabhupāda: And so far the article Hayagrīva written, it is very nice. It should be published. Yes. I have seen it.

Satsvarūpa: That means that we can make reference to the gopīs.

Prabhupāda: Oh, it is done. Gopīs are boycotted?

Satsvarūpa: No, gopīs are not boycotted.

Prabhupāda: The policy should be that the people may not understand gopīs like ordinary girls or like that. You should be careful to present the gopīs. It does not mean that "We shall not utter even the name of gopīs. We have taken vow to boycott the gopīs." No. They are our worshipable devotees. How we can avoid them?

Satsvarūpa: What about writing down "kissing the lips of Kṛṣṇa"?

Prabhupāda: No. That we should avoid. That we should avoid. But that is not abominable. According to time and circumstances... That thing I have described. The fact is fact. Just like when I am describing Kṛṣṇa's līlā—I writing Kṛṣṇa's life—so I cannot give up that portion of His life, when Kṛṣṇa is actually kissing the gopīs in rasa dance.

Satsvarūpa: But that's in the books, not in the public...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So in such circumstances, of course, we can give. But as far as possible, very cautiously and very rarely we shall present. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's life, we see that in public He never discussed about Kṛṣṇa's līlā with gopīs. That was very confidential discussion amongst His own circle, Rāya Rāmaṇanda, Svarūpa Dāmodara, like that. And He inquired... Even a learned scholar, He discussed about the philosophy, that Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya.

But when there was a great devotee like Rāmānanda Rāya, He relished gopīs', I mean to say, intimate behavior with Kṛṣṇa. So we should remember this, that public may misunderstand this. Therefore we have to present these things very cautiously, not very openly. They may misunderstand. But so far this article is concerned, that is nicely written. That is quite in order. So this should be published.

Hayagrīva: There is nothing specifically objectionable?

Prabhupāda: No, no. There is nothing.

Hayagrīva: Our process thus far has been to halve up the material about fifty-fifty. He takes half, and I'll take a half, and that seems to be working fairly nicely.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But first thing is that when you are in the post of editors, you are supposed to know. But whenever there is some difficulty, either you get it solved by consulting amongst yourselves, or if it is not possible, then refer to me. That's all.

Satsvarūpa: Oh. Then I have one question to ask you. What about quoting even Vaiṣṇava literature that you haven't translated, like the Caitanya-caritāmṛta or cantos that you haven't translated? That doesn't seem right.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Satsvarūpa: Other translations than your own. What if we want to quote them in some article?

Prabhupāda: Other translation means?

Satsvarūpa: Well, sometimes I see Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Śilavatī even wrote a book about Deity worship, and there's a long quote from Caitanya-caritāmṛta. I don't know if that's bona fide. I know that the literature is bona fide, but I don't know of any translation that's bona...

Prabhupāda: Caitanya-caritāmṛta? He has written a book? I have not seen it.

Satsvarūpa: No. I just mean that devotees, sometimes they write an article and they say, "As it says in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta," and they quote a book that they read by some scholar. Very good Vaiṣṇava literature, but translated by somebody that may not be good.

Prabhupāda: No. Somebody... So far Caitanya-caritāmṛta, that Navina-candra Rāya... You mean to say that...

Brahmānanda: That six volume set? That is all right?

Prabhupāda: That is all right. That is translation. That is all right.

Brahmānanda: That is the one which is in use, I believe. It's not anything, you know...

Prabhupāda: That is simply translation. But Caitanya-caritāmṛta is now presented in our TLC. Actually that is our conclusion. And Navina Rāya's translation, there are sometimes little defects, but not very dangerous, not very dangerous.

Hayagrīva: Should, in your... In the content, should we put in... How many articles can we put in by you? These are the most important contributions we have, and, say, would it be too much material to put in, say, an essay by you and maybe a lecture or...

Prabhupāda: Or whatever it may be. That any article may not be more than two, three pages, printed. That will be nice. And if the number of articles are more... How many pages you are going to print?

Hayagrīva: We're going to print more pages, aren't we?

Brahmānanda: Well, there's some discuss... If we print it on our own press we can print it..., we could add eight more pages, which would make it forty pages. But we may continue with Dai Nippon in Japan. So I don't know if we'll increase the pages.

Prabhupāda: So by increasing the pages, what do we immediately get profit? Is there any special advantage we get?

Satsvarūpa: More reading material.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Satsvarūpa: More reading material. The customer gets more for his money.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. [chuckles] We should be businessmen. They should get less for their money. [laughter] [laughs] We are to please Kṛṣṇa, not our customer. So if we are not increasing the price, then why should we increase the pages? Either we print in our own press or Japan, there is extra labor, extra energy. But we are not getting extra money. So there is no need.

Satsvarūpa: But, Prabhupāda, the point was, can there be more than one article by yourself? Or only one...

Prabhupāda: No. No. One. One. Everyone one, not more. One man's article, not more than two, either of mine or anyone. But so far our news is concerned...

Hayagrīva: Not more than two or not more than one?

Prabhupāda: No. Not more than one. Not more than one.

Hayagrīva: You said two or three pages. Maybe four pages would be all...?

Prabhupāda: Four pages, that's all. But not more than four pages.

Hayagrīva: There was an excerpt from, I think, Kṛṣṇa book...

Prabhupāda: No. Whatever is done is done. Now you follow this policy, that one...

Hayagrīva: What about excerpts from your books? Is that all right?

Prabhupāda: Oh, excerpt from my book or my article, the same thing. The same thing. So there is no difference. That is also my writing. And whatever you are writing, that is also my writing. [laughs] So everything is all right. [laughter]

Hayagrīva: It's all your vibration.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But they should be divided into different names. [laughter] Just like...

Hayagrīva: I have though of doing Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī's Brahma-saṁhitā. Do you think we could serialize it maybe in three or four Back to Godheads? Or could we print it ourselves in a little pamphlet? Or which do you think would be better?

Prabhupāda: No, if you publish in Back to Godhead, then by portion, similarly, three, four pages. That's all, continually, Bhaktisiddhānta's... So when there will be articles sorted, first Guru Mahārāja's, Bhaktisiddhānta's, then mine. Like that. Yes.

Hayagrīva: Yes. Do you think it would be a good...

Prabhupāda: If you write something, quotation, from Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, that should be first. Just like guru-paramparā, when we offer our respect, first our own spiritual master, then his spiritual master, then his spiritual master. In this way. But when putting article, that should be the opposite. First Bhaktivinoda, then Bhaktisiddhānta, then my, then my disciples, like that.

Kīrtanānanda: Why don't you write some purports to that?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Kīrtanānanda: To Bhaktisiddhānta's Brahma-saṁhitā. It would be nice if you would write some purports to it.

Prabhupāda: Purports?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes. Some of us have difficulty understanding Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So if I get time... My time is very limited. So even there is difficulty, let them read over and over and again. Then they will understand. Why should we change it? Let it be presented as Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī has given, and... Then don't give more than one or two pages at a time. Their brain will be puzzled. [laughter] [chuckles] Yes.

When Guru Mahārāja was speaking, at least my brain was puzzled. [laughter] Even he would speak in Bengali, it was very difficult to understand. You see? He was speaking from a very, very high platform. But I wanted to hear him. That's all. Even I did not understand it. That he appreciated, [laughs] that "This boy does not go away. He hears."

And actually that was my position. In the beginning I could not understand what he was speaking, but I wanted to hear him. That's all. I was very much anxious to hear him. That he marked. And he was kindly pleased on me, that "He wants to hear. He does not go away." That was my policy, that "Let me hear. Even I do not understand, let me hear." That's all. Yes. Actually I did not understand in the beginning what he was speaking.

So Bhaktisiddhānta's writing is not very easy to understand. Yes. But we should try, read and read again, and simply that vibration will help us. That's all. It is transcendental vibration, not that everyone will understand. But if you simply give aural reception to the vibration, that will make him advanced, not exactly that anyone has to understand it. Yes. Just like a man is sleeping, and somebody is calling him.

In his sleeping condition he does not understand. By calling, calling, calling, he gets up because that vibration is there. Not that in his sleeping condition he is understanding what is this sound is coming. So similarly, we should give reception to the transcendental vibrations made by Kṛṣṇa and His bona fide representatives. That will make us awakened. Not that we understand everything.

Satsvarūpa: Prabhupāda, in editing, there are two different policies about using capitals. One is to use as few capitals as possible or to use many capitals, in grammar capitalized, or to use few. So sometimes your Nectar of Devotion has got very few capitals. When Balarāma is referred to as "he," there is no capital. But the other policy is to always put... Kṛṣṇa's Hands, capital H, Kṛṣṇa's Feet, capital F, Kṛṣṇa Who, capital W. Which is...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Don't follow that policy. That will not be very... Then...

Satsvarūpa: The less capitals, the better?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I think. What do you think?

Hayagrīva: Well, I think, when referring to Kṛṣṇa, we should always have a capital "H."

Prabhupāda: Especially. Yes. Especially for Kṛṣṇa, you can.

Hayagrīva: And if we want to, for Rādhā, capital "S."

Prabhupāda: But Balarāma is not different from Kṛṣṇa.

Satsvarūpa: So He is capital "H."

Hayagrīva: So He is capital "H." But then here we go. [laughter]

Prabhupāda: No, no. You limit to these three. That will do.

Hayagrīva: Limit to those three.

Prabhupāda: Or Viṣṇu. Yes. Viṣṇu.

Hayagrīva: What about avatāras, in reference to Christ or Buddha?

Prabhupāda: Buddha is capital use. Jesus Christ is capital used.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. But he... Like "He." He means Buddha, "Who."

Hayagrīva: No, "He."

Prabhupāda: No. That you can use...

Satsvarūpa: Small.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: Then words like Kṛṣṇa's "pastimes," "entourage," His "will."

Prabhupāda: No, small.

Satsvarūpa: Small.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hayagrīva: The possessions of Kṛṣṇa, small.

Prabhupāda: Small.

Satsvarūpa: His hands and feet, small.

Brahmānanda: Lotus feet?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: Lotus flower?

Prabhupāda: Yes. All small. Simply name. Stick to name.

Hayagrīva: The pronoun, Kṛṣṇa, "who." The pronoun "who," that's not...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Use small.

Hayagrīva: Okay. Thank you. There's so many... That causes a headache for everyone.

Prabhupāda: No. It is better to make everything sound but slow. We want to create this position of Back to Godhead as very authorized representation of the science of God. In future people may refer to it, so we should very cautiously and very nicely do it. It is very important thing, Back to Godhead.

If our movement is going to be recognized as scientific, God consciousness movement, then this Back to Godhead will be referred as authorized scripture. So therefore we have to prepare in such a way, nothing non-conclusive can be introduced in this. That should be our policy. And actually it is the position of Back to Godhead.

Satsvarūpa: Prabhupāda, about glossaries, the glossary? I have prepared a glossary...

Brahmānanda: It's for the books.

Satsvarūpa: Oh. Well, this is still...

Prabhupāda: Glossary?

Satsvarūpa: For the Īśopaniṣad. And Hayagrīva Prabhu thought that there was too much preaching in the definition. Like, say, if the definition of bhakti, I shouldn't say, "Bhakti is the highest form of yoga." Well, I don't know if... I'm not speaking new words, but to make it..., not to preach more, but I thought that was right.

Prabhupāda: Glossary should be short as possible.

Satsvarūpa: Short as possible.

Prabhupāda: Yes. At the same time, carrying the meaning.

Satsvarūpa: The conclusion of Vaiṣṇava philosophy. That's the absolute meaning.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It should not be describing the definition. That is not glossary. Glossary should be explained in gist, but the meaning should be carried.

Hayagrīva: Well, can we use, for instance, the glossary to your Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam printed in India? Can we use that as a model for...? Is that...?

Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam?

Hayagrīva: You have a glossary at the end of the first volume. Is that the type of glossary...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have given glossary. You can follow that principle. Yes. And at the end of each book, glossary, index, will carry weight.

Hayagrīva: Well, that was fairly terse, if I remember, though. That was fairly terse. I mean very short, brief. Definitions were very...

Prabhupāda: So one thing may appear to be very simple and to other, terse, but you do your own duty. But another thing: where is the Bhagavad-gītā with my full translation and synonyms? Where is that manuscript?

Hayagrīva: I have... There are several existing manuscripts. I have... The manuscript I went over is in Columbus.

Prabhupāda: Whole?

Hayagrīva: The total manuscript is there.

Prabhupāda: So we have to prepare for next publication, revised and enlarged, giving in the same process: original verse, transliteration, synonyms, and translation and purport.

Hayagrīva: English synonyms. Pradyumna was preparing those...

Pradyumna: I've already started that, the first chapter.

Prabhupāda: Our first printing will be this..., what is name? Nectar of Devotion. And then, if possible, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, revised and enlarged.

Satsvarūpa: Īśopaniṣad is even before Nectar of Devotion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Īśopaniṣad. That is already... And then Bhāgavatam. Then Bhāgavatam. And so far Kṛṣṇa is concerned, Kṛṣṇa we shall print after this Nectar of Devotion in our press if it is printed. But if I get some money, contribution, from George Harrison, then I may get it printed immediately from Japan. Yes.

Devotee: Haribol.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: Jayadvaita Prabhu says that...

Jayadvaita: There's another manuscript of Bhagavad-gītā also in New York, the original.

Prabhupāda: Oh. You have got?

Jayadvaita: Yes. It's in New York, except for the first two chapters. Everything else is there.

Prabhupāda: So first two chapters might be with Janārdana. But you have got the whole thing...

Jayadvaita: Yes, Hayagrīva has.

Prabhupāda: ...Hayagrīva

Hayagrīva: Yes. That has been... I have gone over that, the one I have. The one that is in New York, no one has gone over that.

Jayadvaita: Some of it has been edited by Rāyarāma, but you can see around it and go to the original behind it.

Prabhupāda: So whatever is lacking, you ask me. I will supply you.

Hayagrīva: Well, I have nothing lacking. But I would like to see that version.

Jayadvaita: That's with a Dictaphone. So it's...

Hayagrīva: I would like to see that in going over mine. I'll have to go over it chapter by chapter. But I will compare the version I have with that version, and... I know the translations themselves, they were somewhat changed in Bhagavad-gītā As It Is as it came out in Macmillan. Did you like those translations?

Prabhupāda: Whichever is better, you think. That's all. You can follow this Macmillan.

Hayagrīva: That was the second... They're good. I think they're very good.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You can follow that translation. Simply synonyms we can add, transliterations.

Hayagrīva: And we have all the purports. We can include everything. Nothing will be deleted. Everything will be in there.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Satsvarūpa: Prabhupāda, I have a question, and it applies only to me, but it's important. A year ago you wrote me in a letter when I was..., said the editing was going slow, to pay more attention to managing the temple. So...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Managing, you..., why don't you make this Girirāja as the temple manager?

Satsvarūpa: But still... I've already done that. I've made him, but practically I'm still managing anyway. And I made Murāri manager, but still I'm... I don't spend much time in editing. People are always coming, and I'm running all over the place. I don't edit at all. It makes me sad. I don't...

Prabhupāda: No, no. They must give relief to you. You can give them instruction, but the actual execution should be done... Pradyumna is there. He can also do. But anyone who is expert in management, he should be... Temple management should not be done directly by you. You can give him policy that "You do like this." That's all. Because you have got so many other things to do. Yes. So you create. If there is no expert manager, you create some manager. That is most important thing: to create. To become... [laughs]

In our college there was one Mr. Kidd, professor of economics. He was always chastising us—we were student; he was our professor—"Oh, you cannot have independence. You cannot manage it. You cannot manage. You can work just like ass, but if some asses are given under you, you cannot work." He was talking like that. "So don't cry for independence. You are not yet nation." He was talking like that.

So actually his experience was nice, that since the Britishers have gone away, the management of Indian government is not nice. They cannot manage. So he was experienced. He told. I sometimes remember that Professor Kidd told me like that. [laughs] So we have to create nice administrator. That is another function, you see? Every department, we shall create assistant, assistant. So that in case he is ill or he is sick, he cannot work, somebody must work for him.

Brahmānanda: That is how we can expand also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Some assistant always must be there, training of assistant. So far your editorial is concerned, you can train. Now Puruṣottama, he can also assist you. Similarly, Gaurasundara can assist you.

Satsvarūpa: Jayadvaita is already...

Prabhupāda: Ah, Jayadvaita. So in this way you should create assistant editors also.

Hayagrīva: Then the process thus far we have, someone types off the Dictaphone. Now, thus far

[aside:] you've been doing this?

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Hayagrīva: Thus far Satsvarūpa...

Prabhupāda: That Dictaphone can be done in Detroit. That boy Bhagavān dāsa is here. He has offered service.

Satsvarūpa: There's one thing... It seems to be easy, but it's very difficult to hear your voice, and some people...

Prabhupāda: That will require practice. He may commit some mistake in the beginning, but when he is practiced, he will do the right thing. So that you cannot avoid. You cannot change my voice.

Satsvarūpa: No. But I can hear it. I can understand it.

Kīrtanānanda: Yes, but you can't go on forever doing typing.

Brahmānanda: We've learned, so someone else can.

Satsvarūpa: So just now you've sent a Kṛṣṇa tape. Should I, rather than do that, give it to Bhagavān?

Prabhupāda: No. First of all test him, who will do that. Test him here, whether he can understand.

Hayagrīva: A tape recording of Dictaphone.

Jayadvaita: Yes. And you check the copies.

Hayagrīva: And you can check the copies after. Why don't you do that? Make a tape recording, and then, when the manuscript comes back, you can check it off the tape recorder. I've done that before, to.

Brahmānanda: I also have a Dictaphone in New York, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That is mine.

Brahmānanda: No. I have another one also. I also can have tapes typed.

Hayagrīva: We'll work it out.

Prabhupāda: So that can be distributed, tapes. Yes. In different centers they will have Dictaphone and they'll do it.

Satsvarūpa: And then send me the copy to edit.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Hayagrīva: I have a Dictaphone also, so they can also be sent to Śyāma dāsī.

Satsvarūpa: Yeah.

Hayagrīva: And then... But before you send them, make a tape, make a recording of them so you can check them over if you want to check them over. 'Cause I don't have time to do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So taping, recording, that does not take much time.

Hayagrīva: No. Somebody can do that for you.

Prabhupāda: You can keep it and record. Yes. So manage in that way. We have to train so many things. So tactfully you have to do that.

Hayagrīva: Then he does the first editing. After it's typed up off the Dictaphone, Satsvarūpa does the first editing. Then I go over what he has gone over and check the manuscript...

Prabhupāda: Yes. What you do, he goes. And what he does, you go. Then final. In this way. But the last editing should be checked twice. The Dictaphone, then checked by him and then by you. Or checked by you and then by him. That's all.

Hayagrīva: Yes. And Pradyumna does the Sanskrit after.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all. That is printing department.

Hayagrīva: And then Jayadvaita does the composing.

Prabhupāda: Jayadvaita and others.

Satsvarūpa: Pālikā and Arundhati.

Prabhupāda: Now, I heard that you are composing fifty pages daily, altogether?

Jayadvaita: No, not fifty pages. The manuscript pages, yesterday we composed about forty manuscript pages.

Prabhupāda: Correct, all? Complete?

Jayadvaita: Yes. The original... It's done twice. So those first pages, the first time, they'd already been done.

Prabhupāda: No, no. These forty pages, they are complete?

Jayadvaita: Yes. They are complete.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. That is encouraging. So even if you complete thirty pages daily, that will be very nice.

Pradyumna: They'll get faster, because Śyāma dāsī and Arundhati were just typing fourteen hours a day in Columbus, and they were getting at least twenty manuscript pages done, and now it's...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, you are the in-charge of this composition. You or Jaya-govinda? Who is in charge of the composition?

Jayadvaita: Mostly I am doing it.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. Then you get easily not less than thirty pages daily, complete. That will satisfy. Is that all right?

Jayadvaita: That's all right.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then our books are, biggest book, four hundred pages. So thirty pages daily means... What is that? Within fifteen days you can complete.

Jayadvaita: Thirty manuscript pages, thirty book pages?

Prabhupāda: Thirty book pages. No. Or what is the manuscript pages? I do not understand.

Jayadvaita: When it's typed out, we've been doing about...

Prabhupāda: I want complete for being photographed.

Jayadvaita: Yes.

Brahmānanda: When you say a page, do you mean a page...

Jayadvaita: He means the typed copies. I've been doing forty of those...

Brahmānanda: How many manuscript pages?

Jayadvaita: That's what I mean. Forty of those pages. Forty pages like that. So Nectar of Devotion is about 580...

Prabhupāda: Oh...

Pradyumna: Forty of these.

Prabhupāda: Oh. All right. These are forty pages. Such, say, in fifteen days, how many pages?

Satsvarūpa: Four hundred and fifty.

Prabhupāda: So you take up twenty days, one month for one book?

Hayagrīva: I can't edit much faster then that, either. I cannot edit much faster than forty pages a day.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Don't do it, I mean to say, so hastily. But do it slowly and surely. That will be nice. Yes.

Brahmānanda: One book, one month.

Prabhupāda: No, that you are printing, that "one book, one month" for the last six months. [laughs] That is in theory only. Actually it has not happened. Now do everything solidly so that at least in two months we finish one book. That's all. Is that all right?

Jayadvaita: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You say everything all right. [laughter] Anyway...

Brahmānanda: Today, Pradyumna prabhu, you edited how many pages?

Pradyumna: I didn't edit so many today. I edited fifty yesterday.

Brahmānanda: So the order...

Prabhupāda: So I think I want... I shall be very glad to see that the Nectar of Devotion is finished before I leave this place and you begin some other book.

Jayadvaita: The second part... We've finished the first part. We're now into the second part.

Prabhupāda: Second part, which second part?

Jayadvaita: Where the qualities of Kṛṣṇa are described. We've started that part of the book now.

Pradyumna: How many pages, manuscript pages, composed? Two-fifty...

Jayadvaita: Two-sixty manuscript pages.

Pradyumna: Two hundred and sixty, out of five hundred and seventy four, done.

Jayadvaita: Almost half the book.

Pradyumna: But it's going pretty fast.

Hayagrīva: You want me to do Nectar of Devotion and then Kṛṣṇa and then Bhagavad-gītā, in that order?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So everything is all right, bṛhat-mṛdaṅga department? Eh? Major saṅkīrtana party. [coughs] They are going, saṅkīrtana parties, in different cities. That is junior. But your this party, editorial, is senior. You are sitting one place; you have to work thousand times more than them. Yes. You have to edit in such a way.

[coughs] [aside:] Where is that water?

Brahmānanda: It's being offered, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: All right, all right. Yes. That's all...

Satsvarūpa: I have a question from the art department.

Prabhupāda: Art, yes.

Satsvarūpa: Jadurānī asks are they going too slow? She wants to know are they going too slow. They have thirty pictures ready.

Prabhupāda: One thing, that Jadurānī should have some assistants. He [she] alone cannot do that.

Satsvarūpa: Well, Prabhupāda, you used that word once before, assistant. So then when Jāhnavā saw that letter she said, "That means that I should paint." So all that assistant meant was that they all painted. And Śāradīyā began to paint. I don't know what you mean by assistant.

Prabhupāda: Assistant means that they should work under her direction. That is assistant.

Satsvarūpa: And produce pictures side by side with her.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I give some idea, sketch, and then under that sketch, instruction of Jadurānī, and...

Satsvarūpa: So according to Jadurānī, only she, Muralīdhara, Devahūti and Baradrāj were good enough, that the other weren't good painters, Jāhnavā and Śāradīyā. But I don't know that.

Prabhupāda: Then they may practice. They may be given to practice, not the actual work. So... But they are scattered in different places.

Brahmānanda: Baradrāj is coming to Boston.

Prabhupāda: Baradrāj is good. Yes. He can... If he likes, he can do much work.

Satsvarūpa: And Muralīdhara is good and also produces. Devahūti is good, but doesn't produce.

Prabhupāda: So Devahūti has gone. I would have talked with her.

Brahmānanda: Yes. I don't have her address.

Prabhupāda: Oh, she does not live in the temple?

Brahmānanda: No. And she doesn't come often to the temple. I do not know her address, so I don't know how to... I will call up her daughter, Indumatī, and see if I can get her address and write her.

Kīrtanānanda: What about Mādhava-lati?

Prabhupāda: Yes. She is good painter.

Kīrtanānanda: She's exhibiting a much nicer atti... She had sārī on today, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Kīrtanānanda: She had a sārī on today.

Prabhupāda: Sārī?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes. She was wearing a sārī at the temple. She looks very nice.

Prabhupāda: No, she is nice. She is talented.

Satsvarūpa: She could be an assistant painter.

Prabhupāda: And why not somebody marry her? If somebody wants to marry, then she will be all right.

Brahmānanda: Nayanābhirāma wanted to marry her.

Prabhupāda: Then why not ask and get her married? Yes. Then she will be fixed up. I think she requires to be married. Then she will be satisfied.

Satsvarūpa: One more question from art was...

Prabhupāda: She is here. I recommend that just ask her to get married. If she agrees, that, what is that boy?

Brahmānanda: Nayanābhirāma.

Prabhupāda: Let them marry and live here.

Satsvarūpa: The other question was, is the subject matter, as they're being done, is there any criticism or should it be changed? The paintings that have been finished thus far, should they be changed in some way, the way...?

Prabhupāda: Then... These paintings are first class, these paintings.

Brahmānanda: Is that one first class there, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No.

Satsvarūpa: What's the trouble?

Prabhupāda: The trouble is that Kṛṣṇa's body is... Why it is made so big? Why the others, inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, smaller?

Satsvarūpa: He's supposed to be up in the front. He's supposed to be in the front, and they're all behind Him. But it mustn't be done well enough.

Prabhupāda: Well, that is... Do you think that is represented? Kṛṣṇa did not show His gigantic body. As He was, He lifted. Yes.

Hayagrīva: He seems gigantic.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa could show His gigantic. Actually He expanded His gigantic body. Otherwise how He could lift?

Kīrtanānanda: These are very nice.

Prabhupāda: These things are... Yes.

Brahmānanda: Do you like this one, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: This is also not bad, but...

Kīrtanānanda: The calf looks like a dog.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes.

Satsvarūpa: So they should be done over.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is all right. You see? So you can take some photograph like this picture. This is also... Kṛṣṇa is patting a cow.

Satsvarūpa: That's a good one.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: We should just reproduce that as it is?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not?

Hayagrīva: Gurudāsa has some very excellent pictures from the archives taken from books that were printed, oh, several hundreds of years ago, Bhagavad-gītā and some woodcuts of Nṛsiṁha, which would be considered quite artistic. But maybe we can send them to you to see if they meet your approval, and maybe reproduce them.

Prabhupāda: No, whatever card, form, we get, unless we have got arrangement for worship... Of course, we can keep, but our any form, wooden or stone, that should be worshiped.

Hayagrīva: These are photographs, these are pictures.

Prabhupāda: Oh, pictures. Then it is all right. All right. It is all right?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. That's all.

Prabhupāda: That's all. So now distribute prasādam. First of all, chant once more Hare Kṛṣṇa. [end]