Bhagavad-gītā 6.13–15 [Sāṅkhya Yoga System] , Los Angeles , 1969-02-16

Devotees: All glories to Śrī guru, Śrīla Prabhupāda. [devotees offer obeisances]

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Sāṅkhya-yoga is the aṣṭāṅga-yoga. This sitting posture and meditation, this is called sāṅkhya-yoga. And jñāna-yoga means by..., through philosophical process, by analytical process what is Brahman and what is not Brahman. Neti neti. That is jñāna-yoga. Just like Vedānta-sūtra, jñāna-yoga.

You study Vedānta-sūtra, it says janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1].

[O my Lord, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, son of Vasudeva, O all-pervading Personality of Godhead, I offer my respectful obeisances unto You. I meditate upon Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa because He is the Absolute Truth and the primeval cause of all causes of the creation, sustenance and destruction of the manifested universes. He is directly and indirectly conscious of all manifestations, and He is independent because there is no other cause beyond Him. It is He only who first imparted the Vedic knowledge unto the heart of Brahmājī, the original living being. By Him even the great sages and demigods are placed into illusion, as one is bewildered by the illusory representations of water seen in fire, or land seen on water. Only because of Him do the material universes, temporarily manifested by the reactions of the three modes of nature, appear factual, although they are unreal. I therefore meditate upon Him, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, who is eternally existent in the transcendental abode, which is forever free from the illusory representations of the material world. I meditate upon Him, for He is the Absolute Truth.]

They gives one hint codes, that the Supreme Brahman, Absolute Truth, is that from whom everything is emanated. Now we try to understand what must be that.

That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, what is nature of that Absolute Truth. The Absolute Truth, in the first verse of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said: janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ svarāṭ. Now the Absolute Truth, if He is the supreme cause of all emanation, then what are the symptoms?

The Bhāgavata said that He must be cognizant. He's not dead; He must be cognizant. And what kind of cognizance? Anvayād itarataś cārtheṣu. Just like I am cognizant, you are also cognizant. But I do not know, myself, how many hairs are there in my body. I'm claiming, "This is my head," but if I ask anybody, "Do you know how many hairs you have got in your body...?" That kind of knowledge is not knowledge.

But the Supreme, Bhāgavata says that He knows everything, directly and indirectly. I know I am eating, but I do not know how my eating process is helping my circulation of blood, how it is being transformed, how it is working, how it is going through the veins. I do not know anything. But God must be He who knows everything. Every corner of His creation what is going on He must know. Therefore the Bhāgavata explains that Supreme Truth from whom everything is emanated, He must be supremely cognizant. Cognizant. Abhijñaḥ. Abhijñaḥ means cognizant.

That you may question: "Then if He is so powerful, wise and cognizant, He must have learned it from similar..." No. He says that if he learns knowledge from somebody else, then he is not God. Svarāṭ. Automatically. He's self-independent. This is jñāna-yoga: the study,what is the nature, by..., just analyze what should be the nature of the Supreme, from whom everything is emanating.

That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therefore Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the supreme jñāna-yoga and bhakti-yoga combined. Yes. [pause] The jñāna-yoga process means to search out the Absolute Truth or to understand the nature of the Absolute Truth by philosophical way. And this is called jñāna-yoga. And our is bhakti-yoga.

Bhakti-yoga means the process is the same, target is the same. One is trying to reach the supreme ultimate goal by philosophical way, one is trying to concentrate his mind on the Supreme, and the other, the bhaktas, they are simply engaging themselves to serve the Supreme Lord so easily. One process is to understand by the ascending process, and another process is the descending process.

Just like in the darkness, if you try to understand what is sun by ascending process, by flying your very powerful airplane or sputniks—just go round over the sky—you cannot see. But the descending process, when the sun rises, you understand immediately. Ascending process—my endeavor, what is called inductive process. Inductive process.

Just like my father says that "Man is mortal," I accept it. Now if you want to study whether man is mortal, you study, you see many thousands of men, whether he is immortal or mortal, that will take so much time. But if you take the knowledge from the superior authority that man is mortal, your knowledge is complete.


athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvaya
prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi
jānāti tattvaṁ bhagavan-mahimno
na cānya eko 'pi ciraṁ vicinvan

[My Lord, if one is favored by even a slight trace of the mercy of Your lotus feet, he can understand the greatness of Your personality. But those who speculate to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead are unable to know You, even though they continue to study the Vedas for many years.]

Therefore it is said, "My dear Lord, a person who has received a little favor from You, he can understand You very quickly. And others, who are trying to understand You by the ascending process, they may go on speculating for millions of years, they will never understand."

They will never understand. They will come to the point of frustration and confusion, "Oh, God is zero." That's all. Finished. You see? [pause] If God is zero, then how from zero so many, I mean to say, figures coming out, God is zero?

Bhāgavata says, Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]: everything is generated from the Supreme. Now we have to study how it is generated. That is also explained, what is the way, what is the process, how to know it. This is Vedānta-sūtra. The Vedānta means the ultimate knowledge. Veda means knowledge, and anta means ultimate. So Vedānta means the ultimate knowledge. The ultimate knowledge is the Supreme Lord.


Lady devotee: Prabhupāda, you said that Kṛṣṇa has no limbs, no eyes, no form that we can comprehend. How, then, are we to understand the form of Kṛṣṇa that's given to us in the pictures and the mūrtis?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that I have explained, that you are to simply serve Him, then He will reveal. You cannot understand Kṛṣṇa by your ascending process. You have to serve Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa will reveal to you. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, you'll find in the Tenth Chapter:

teṣām evānukampārtham
aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ
nāśayāmy ātma-bhāva-stho
jñāna-dīpena bhāsvatā

[Bg. 10.11]

[Out of compassion for them, I, dwelling in their hearts, destroy with the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance.]

"Those who are always engaged in My service, just to show them a special favor," teṣām evānukampārtham, aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ nāśayāmi, "I vanquish all kinds of darkness of ignorance by the light of knowledge."

So Kṛṣṇa is within you. And when you are sincerely searching after Kṛṣṇa by the devotional process, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, you'll find in Eighteenth Chapter, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]:

[One can understand the Supreme Personality as He is only by devotional service. And when one is in full consciousness of the Supreme Lord by such devotion, he can enter into the kingdom of God.]

"One can understand Me simply by this devotional process." Bhaktyā. And what is bhakti? Bhakti is this: śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23], simply hearing and chanting about Viṣṇu. This is the beginning of bhakti.

So if you simply hear sincerely and submissively, then you will understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa will reveal to you. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam... [SB 7.5.23].

[Prahlāda Mahārāja said: Hearing and chanting about the transcendental holy name, form, qualities, paraphernalia and pastimes of Lord Viṣṇu, remembering them, serving the lotus feet of the Lord, offering the Lord respectful worship with sixteen types of paraphernalia, offering prayers to the Lord, becoming His servant, considering the Lord one's best friend, and surrendering everything unto Him (in other words, serving Him with the body, mind and words)—these nine processes are accepted as pure devotional service. One who has dedicated his life to the service of Kṛṣṇa through these nine methods should be understood to be the most learned person, for he has acquired complete knowledge.]

There are different..., nine kinds of variety. So vandanam, offering prayers, that is also bhakti. Śravaṇam, to hear about Him. Just like we are hearing about Kṛṣṇa from this Bhagavad-gītā. Chanting about His glory, Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the beginning. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ.

Viṣṇu means..., everything is Viṣṇu. The meditation is Viṣṇu. The bhakti is Viṣṇu. Not without Viṣṇu. And Kṛṣṇa is the original form of Viṣṇu. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam, [SB 1.3.28]

[All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear on planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists. The Lord incarnates to protect the theists.]

The original form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So if we follow this process, then we'll be able to understand, without any doubt.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Thirteen and fourteen: "One should hold one's body, neck and head erect in a straight line and stare steadily at the tip of the nose. Thus, with an unagitated, subdued mind, devoid of fear, completely free from sex life, one should meditate upon Me within the heart and make Me the ultimate goal of life."

Prabhupāda: This is the process. First of all you have to select a nice place, solitary place, and you have to execute alone. Not that you go to a yoga class and pay your fees and make some gymnastic, and come back home and do all nonsense. You see? Don't be entrapped by all these ridiculous things. You see? Simply such society, I can declare, is the society of the cheaters and the cheated. You see? Here is the practice. Here you can see. And spoken by the supreme authority, Kṛṣṇa. Is there any person better yogī than Kṛṣṇa?

Here is the authoritative statement, that you have to practice like this. Now, one should hold one's body... First of all you have to select your place, holy place, alone, and special seat. Then you have to sit straight like this. Huh? "One should hold one's body, neck and head erect." Straight line. This is the yoga process. These things help to concentrate the mind. That's all. But the real purpose of yoga is to keep Kṛṣṇa always within yourself.

Here it is stated that, "One should hold one's body, neck and head erect in a straight line and stare steadily at the tip of the nose." Now here, you have to see, and if you close, meditation, you'll sleep. I have seen. So many so-called meditator, they're sleeping. [makes snoring sound] [laughter] I've seen it. You see?

Because as soon as you close your eyes, it is natural that you'll feel sleepy. You see? Therefore, half-closed. You have to see. That is the process. You have to see the tip of your nose, two eyes. "Thus with unagitated mind." This process will help your mind to be fixed up, unagitated mind, subdued mind, devoid of fear. Yes.

Because you have to..., generally the yogīs, they used to practice in jungle, and if he's thinking, "Oh, some tiger is coming or not, what is that?" [laughter] You see? Or some snake is coming. Because you have to sit down alone in a jungle. You see? There are so many animals—tigers and deers and snake. So therefore it is specially stated, "devoid of fear." Devoid of... The skin of deer is specially used in yoga-āsana because it has got some medical effect that snakes do not come.

If you sit down on that particular skin, the snakes and reptiles will not come there. That is the purpose. You'll not be disturbed. "Devoid of fear, completely free from sex life." You see? If you indulge in sex life, you cannot fix up your mind in anything. That is the effect of brahmacārī life. If you remain brahmacārī, without sex life, then you can be determined.

Just like we have seen a practical example of Mahatma Gandhi in India. Now, he started a movement, nonviolent, noncooperation. The movement..., the fight was declared against the powerful British Empire. Just see. And he determined that "I shall fight with the Britishers nonviolent, without any weapon," because India was dependent; there was no weapon. And several times it was attempted by armed revolution. But these Britishers and more powerful; they cut down. So Gandhi, he invented this method, that "I shall fight with the Britishers. Even they become violent, I shall not become violent. So I shall get world sympathy." So this was his plan. He was great statesman.

But his determination was so fixed up because he was a brahmacārī. From..., at the age of thirty-six years he gave up. He had his wife, but he gave up his sex life. He was a family man, he had children, he had his wife, but from the age of thirty-six, young man, a thirty-six year old, he gave up sex life with his wife. That made him so determined that "I shall drive away these Britishers from the land of India," and he did it. You see? And actually he did it. So controlling the sex life..., to refrain from sex life is so powerful. Even if you don't do anything, if you simply restrain your sex life, you become a very powerful man. People do not know the secret. So anything you do, if you want to do it with determination, you have to stop sex life. That is the secret.

So any process take, Vedic process—either you take yoga process or bhakti process or jñāna process—in no process sex indulgence is allowed. No. Sex indulgence is only allowed family life just to beget very nice children. That's all. Sex life is not for sense enjoyment, although there is enjoyment by nature. Unless there is enjoyment, why one should take responsibility of family life? That is the secret of nature's gift. But we should not take advantage of it. [loud noise] These are the secrets of life.

[aside:] You can take it away.

These are the secrets of life.

So yoga practice, such a nice thing. If you indulge in sex life, this is simply nonsense. Simply nonsense. And if anyone says that "You go on with your sex life as much as you like, at the same time you become a yogī. Simply pay my fees; I give you some miracle mantra...," these are all nonsense. All nonsense. But we want to be cheated. We want to be cheated. We want something sublime very cheap. That means we want to be cheated. If you want very nice thing, you must pay for it. "No. I shall go to a store, 'Sir, I can pay you ten cent, if you give me the best thing for it.' " How can you expect by ten cent?

If you want to purchase some valuable..., if you want to purchase gold, then you have to pay for it. Similarly, if you want perfection in yoga practice, then you have to pay for it like this. Don't make it childish affair. That is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. If you make it childish affair, then you'll be cheated. And so many cheaters are ready to cheat you and take your money and go away. That's all. Here is the statement, authoritative statement: "Free from sex life, one should meditate upon Me." And ultimately, where is the meditation? Not in void; just on Viṣṇu, this Viṣṇu form. That is sāṅkhya-yoga.

This sāṅkhya-yoga was first practiced by Kapiladeva. He is incarnation of God, Kṛṣṇa. So this is the secret of yoga, that this, I mean to say, process of sitting and seeing the tip of your nose and sitting straight, all these, I mean to say, means will help you to concentrate your mind on the Viṣṇu form, or Kṛṣṇa. "One should meditate upon Me." This meditation means meditation on Kṛṣṇa.

So here, in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, it is directly simply on Kṛṣṇa. There is nothing... Therefore nobody is better meditator than these boys. They are simply concentrating on Kṛṣṇa. Their whole business is Kṛṣṇa. They're working in the garden, digging the earth: "Oh, there will be nice rose, we shall offer to Kṛṣṇa." Meditation. Practical meditation: "I shall grow rose and it will be offered to Kṛṣṇa." Even in the digging there is meditation. You see? They are preparing nice foodstuff, "Oh, it will be eaten by Kṛṣṇa." So in cooking there is meditation. You see? And what to speak of chanting and dancing. So they are meditating twenty-four hours in Kṛṣṇa. Perfect yogī. Let anyone come and challenge. These boys are perfect yogī.

We are teaching perfect yoga system. Not whimsically; on the authority of Bhagavad-gītā. We have not manufactured anything by concoction, but here is the statement, you see? Simply to concentrate your mind on Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu. And their activities have been so molded that they cannot think of Kṛṣṇa..., cannot think but "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa." So they are highest meditators. "Think upon Me within the heart and make Me the ultimate goal of life." So Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate goal of life. They are preparing themselves for being transferred to the Kṛṣṇaloka. So here is a perfect yoga. Perfect yoga they are practicing.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Verse fifteen: "By meditating in this manner, always controlling the body, mind and activities, the mystic transcendentalist attains to peace [the supreme nirvāṇa], which abides in Me."

Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa means... The actual word nirvāṇa, in Sanskrit, nirvāṇa means finished. Finished. That is called nirvāṇa. That means materialistic activities finished. No more. That is called nirvāṇa. And unless you finish this nonsense activities, there is no question of peace. So long you'll be engaged in materialistic activities, there is no question of peace.

Prahlāda Mahārāja said to his father, tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt [SB 7.5.5].

[Prahlāda Mahārāja replied: O best of the asuras, King of the demons, as far as I have learned from my spiritual master, any person who has accepted a temporary body and temporary household life is certainly embarrassed by anxiety because of having fallen in a dark well where there is no water but only suffering. One should give up this position and go to the forest [vana]. More clearly, one should go to Vṛndāvana, where only Kṛṣṇa consciousness is prevalent, and should thus take shelter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.]

His father asked him, "My dear boy, you are being educated." A small boy, five years old, father is always affectionate, and he was asking, "My dear boy, what you have learned, best thing, till now?" Oh, he immediately, "Yes, father, I shall tell you the best thing." "What is that?" He said, tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām, "My dear father, this is the best thing." For whom? Best thing for whom? He said, tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt: these people, these materialistic people who have accepted something nonpermanent...

Just try to understand each word. These materialistic people, they are hankering after capturing something nonpermanent, that's all. You have seen, by experience. Now that president, Mr. Kennedy, he was very rich man. He wanted to be president, and he spent money like anything. He became president. He had his nice family, wife, children, presidentship—finished within a second. Similarly, everyone is trying in the material world to capture something which is nonpermanent. But I am spirit soul, permanent.

So these rascals, they do not come to sense that "I am permanent. Why I am after nonpermanent?" If I am always busy for comforts of this body, but I know that this body, today or tomorrow or a hundred years after, will be finished, and so far I am concerned, I am spirit soul, I have no birth, I have no death, then what is my function? It is the bodily function, so far I am doing these material activities.

Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said asad-grahāt. Just see how nice. They are anxious, they are full of anxieties, because they have captured something nonpermanent. Their whole activities are targeted to capture something nonpermanent; therefore they are always full of anxieties. Any person, any living entity, man, beast or animal or birds, always anxious. This is material disease.

So if you are always full of anxieties, where there is question of peace? You go, I go in the street, I see, "Beware of dog." They are living in a very nice house, but full of anxieties, "Somebody may not come. Let there be dog." You see? "Beware of dog." "No trespassers." That means although living in a nice cottage, very nice, but full of anxieties. Full of anxieties. Sitting in an office, very nice, good salary, always thinking, "Oh, I may not lose this office." [laughter] You see? You see?

American nation, very rich nation..., very defense..., defense force, everything—always anxious: "Oh, the Vietnamese may not come here." You see? So who is free from anxiety? Therefore the conclusion is if you want peace without anxieties, then you have to come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no other alternative. It is practical. Just try to understand.

Therefore here it is said, "By meditating in this manner, meditating upon Me, Kṛṣṇa, always controlling the body." The first control is tongue. And the next control is the genital. Then you control everything. You give your tongue engagement for chanting and eating kṛṣṇa-prasāda, it is controlled, finished.

And as soon as your tongue is controlled, immediately your stomach is controlled, immediately next your genital is controlled. Simple thing. Controlling the body, mind. Mind being fixed on Kṛṣṇa, no other engagement: controlled. Activities, always doing Kṛṣṇa's work: gardening, typing, cooking, working, everything for Kṛṣṇa, activities. "The mystic transcendentalist then"—immediately they become mystic transcendentalist—"attains to peace, the supreme nirvāṇa, which abides in Me." It is only in Kṛṣṇa. You cannot find out peace outside Kṛṣṇa activities, outside Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not possible.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Purport: "The ultimate goal in practicing yoga is now clearly explained."

Prabhupāda: "Now clearly explained." What is the purpose of yoga? They are very much proud of becoming yogī and attending yoga society and this and that, meditation. But here is the yoga practice, clearly explained.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Yoga practice is not meant for attaining any kind of material facility. It is to enable the cessation of all material existence."

Prabhupāda: So long you require some material facilities, you'll get material facilities. But that is not solution of the problems of your life. Material facilities... I think you American boys and girls, you have got material facilities better than any other nation—at least better than India; that I can say by my experience.

And I have traveled in so many countries, in Japan also I have seen, but still you are better positioned. But do you think you have attained peace? Can any one of you say, "Yes, I am completely in peace"? Then why the youngsters are so much frustrated and confused?

So, so long we shall utilize the yoga practice, this practice, for some material facilities, there is no question of peace. Yoga practice should be performed to understand Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Or to make your lost relationship with Kṛṣṇa reestablished. That is yoga practice.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "One who seeks an improvement in health or aspires after material..."

Prabhupāda: Generally this yoga practice goes on in the name of improving health. Somebody goes to reduce fat. You see? Reduce fat. Because you are rich nation, you eat more and become fatty, and then again pay yoga practice fees and reduce your fat. That is going on. I have seen some advertisement the other day, "Reduce your fat."

Why you increase your fat? The nonsense, they will not understand that if I have to reduce it, why I increase it? Why not be satisfied with simple foodstuff? If you eat grains and vegetables and light foodstuff, you'll never get fatty. You see? You'll never get fatty. Reduce eating as much as possible. Don't eat at night. Practice yoga like this.

If you become voracious eater, you'll be... There are two kinds of diseases. The voracious eaters, they are attacked with diabetes, and those who cannot eat sufficiently, they are tuberculists. So you cannot eat more or you cannot eat less. You just eat what you require. If you eat more, then you must be diseased. And if you eat less, you must be diseased. That will be explained. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati siddhati [Bg. 6.17].

[He who is temperate in his habits of eating, sleeping, working and recreation can mitigate all material pains by practicing the yoga system.]

You are not to starve, but don't eat more.

Our program, kṛṣṇa-prasādam, is that you eat kṛṣṇa-prasādam. Eating is required. You have to keep your body fit for any practice. So eating is required, but don't eat more; don't eat less also. We don't say that you eat less. If you can eat ten pounds, eat. But if you cannot eat ten pounds—out of avarice, out of greediness if you eat ten pounds—then you will suffer. You see? So here is the..., what is that? "No material facility."

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Cessation of material existence does not mean entering into an existence of void, which is only a myth."

Prabhupāda: Yes. So cessation of material existence does not mean void. Because I am not void; I am spirit soul. If I was void, how my development of this body has taken place? I am not void. I am the seed. Just like you sow a seed on the ground, it grows into large tree or plant. Similarly, the seed is given by the father in the womb of the mother, and it grows like a tree, and this body is that. Where is voidness?

Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā

[Bg. 14.4].

[It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kuntī, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father.]

In the Fourteenth Chapter you'll see that originally the seed was given by Kṛṣṇa in the womb of this material nature, and so many living entities are coming out. You cannot argue against it, because actually the generation is the same process as in our practical life: we see the father gives the seed in the womb of the mother, and the mother, I mean to say, nourishes the child to grow body. So there is no question of void. If the seed would have been void, how this nice body has developed?

So nirvāṇa means not to accept any more material body. Don't try to make it void. That is another nonsense. Void... You are not void. Void means to make void this material body, this full of miserable conditional body. Just try to grow your spiritual body. That is possible. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6].

[That abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or moon, nor by electricity. One who reaches it never returns to this material world.]

These things are there. So we have to become very intelligent to understand what is the problem of life, how we should use this valuable human form of life. Unfortunately, this education is practically nil all over the world. Perhaps this is the only institution who is presenting the actual problems of life and actual value of life, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "There is no void anywhere within the creation of the Lord. Rather, the cessation of material..."

Prabhupāda: Void... You see anywhere, even within the ground, within the earth, you'll not see anything void. On the earth there is no void. In the sky, there is no void. In the air, there is no void. In the water, there is no void. In the fire there is no void. Then where do you find void? Where do you find void? This "void" philosophy is another illusion. There cannot be any void.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Rather, the cessation of material existence enables one to enter into the spiritual sky, the abode of the Lord. The abode of the Lord is also clearly described in the Bhagavad-gītā as that place where there is no need of sun or moon or of electricity."

Prabhupāda: Now you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, we have already, I think, in the Second Chapter there is, anyway, that it is said that,

na tatra bhāsayate sūryo
na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ
yad gatvā na nivartante
tad dhāma paramaṁ mama

[Bg. 15.6]

[That abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or moon, nor by electricity. One who reaches it never returns to this material world.]

Now Kṛṣṇa is describing, "My abode, how it is. In that sky, where My abode is there, there is no necessity of sunlight, there is no necessity of moonlight, there is no necessity of electricity." Now you cannot find such abode within this universe. You travel with your sputnik or any machine, you find out some place where there is no sunlight, there is no moonshine. The sunlight is so extensive, all over the universe there is sunlight. Where you'll find that place? That means that place is beyond the sky. That is also stated: paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg. 8.20].

[Yet there is another nature, which is eternal and is transcendental to this manifested and unmanifested matter. It is supreme and is never annihilated. When all in this world is annihilated, that part remains as it is.]

Beyond this material nature there is another, spiritual nature.

So we do not know what is the formation of this material nature, and what to know about the spiritual nature. Then you have to hear from Kṛṣṇa, who lives there. Otherwise, you remain nonsense all your life. Here is the information. How can you know which you cannot reach, cannot know with your senses are so imperfect? How can you know? Simply you have to hear.

Just like you have to hear about your father from the mother. There is no other way. The father certifies, mother certifies, "Here is your father," you have to accept. You cannot make any experiment. Beyond your means. Similarly, if you want to learn about the spiritual sky in God's kingdom, then you have to simply hear from the authority. There is no question of experimental knowledge. Simply hearing.

So hearing means—just like you have to believe some gentleman as your father, hearing from the authority of your mother—simply from the Vedic literature, which is accepted as the mother, authority of mother, knowledge. Mother authority. Veda-mātā. It is called Veda-mātā. Veda means knowledge, and it is received from the mother.

So Veda-mātā, the knowledge mother, you have to know what is Kṛṣṇa. And here Kṛṣṇa is personally explaining. So we have to believe it. Then you get the knowledge. Otherwise, there is no possibility. You cannot make any experiment. Then you fail.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "All the planets in the spiritual kingdom are self-illuminated, like the sun in the material sky."

Prabhupāda: Because here, this planet, this earthly planet, is not illuminating; therefore we require the illumination by the sun, by electricity, by moon. But there, the planet, Kṛṣṇa is self-effulgent. His planet is also self-... One example is this sun. Sun is the self-illuminating planet. If in the material world there is possibility of this illuminating planet, what to speak of the spiritual world?

All the planets there, they are illuminating, self-illuminated. Just like jewelry. Jewelry, a diamond, a piece of diamond, you put it in the darkness, it is self-illuminating. There is no question of illumination to show, "Here is a diamond." It is self-illuminating. Even in this material world you'll find.

So that planet, Kṛṣṇa planet, Goloka Vṛndāvana, that is self-illuminated. We are given that picture in our Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Self-effulgent. There are many millions of planets in that spiritual sky.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "The kingdom of God is everywhere, but the spiritual sky and the planets thereof are called param-dhama, or superior abodes."

Prabhupāda: Yes. This material world is also God's creation. This is also God's kingdom. But because we have forgotten God—we have made "God is dead"—therefore it has become hell. But if we accept God, oh, it becomes spiritual world, automatically. Therefore this temple is spiritual world. It is not material world. It is above the material world.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A consummate yogī, who is perfect in understanding Lord Kṛṣṇa, as is clearly stated herein by the Lord Himself, can obtain real peace and can ultimately reach the supreme abode, the Kṛṣṇaloka, known as Goloka Vṛndāvana. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is clearly stated that the Lord, although He resides always in His abode called Goloka, is the all-pervading Brahman and the localized Paramātmā as well."

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you think that if Kṛṣṇa is in His abode, Goloka Vṛndāvana, then how you think that in your temple there is Kṛṣṇa? No. In the Brahma-saṁhitā says; therefore we require to hear from the authorized mother. The Brahma-saṁhitā says, goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ, [Bs. 5.37]

[I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, residing in His own realm, Goloka, with Rādhā, resembling His own spiritual figure, the embodiment of the ecstatic potency possessed of the sixty-four artistic activities, in the company of Her confidantes [sakhīs], embodiments of the extensions of Her bodily form, permeated and vitalized by His ever-blissful spiritual rasa.]

Although He is living in His abode, Goloka Vṛndāvana, He is everywhere. He's everywhere. Just like the same example can be used, that sun is ninety millions miles, or something like that, away from us, but it is within your room. Otherwise, how you say, "Oh, sunlight is here"? So if sun can penetrate within your room, cannot Kṛṣṇa penetrate within your heart and room and every corner? He is so useless? He is everywhere. But you have to realize how He is everywhere.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Nobody can reach the spiritual sky or enter into the eternal abode of the Lord without the proper understanding of Kṛṣṇa and His plenary expansion, Viṣṇu. Therefore a person working in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the perfect yogī, because his mind is always absorbed in Kṛṣṇa's activities. In the Vedas also we learn, 'One can overcome the path of birth and death only by understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead.' In other words, the perfection of the yoga system is the attainment of freedom from material existence, and not some magical jugglery or gymnastic feat to befool innocent people."

Prabhupāda: Thank you. That's all. [end]