Bhagavad-gītā 5.17–25 , Los Angeles , 1969-02-08

Prabhupāda: All glories to the assembled devotees.

Devotees: All glories to Śrī Guru and Gaurāṅga. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Page number?

Devotee: Page one hundred and forty four.

Prabhupāda: Yes, go on. Where is that boy Kamalāsana?

Devotee (2): He's here.

Prabhupāda: Go on reading. Who will read? You will?

Revatīnandana: [reading Bg. 5.17-20] "When one's intelligence, mind, faith and refuge are all fixed in the Supreme, then one becomes fully cleansed of misgivings through complete knowledge and thus proceeds straight on the path of liberation."

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Revatīnandana: "The humble sage sees with equal vision a learned and gentle brāhmaṇa, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater, or outcaste.

"Those whose minds are established in sameness and equanimity have already conquered the conditions of birth and death. They are flawless like Brahman, and as such, are already situated in Brahman.

"A person who neither rejoices upon achieving something pleasant nor laments upon obtaining something unpleasant; who is self-intelligent, unbewildered and who knows the science of God, is to be understood as already situated in transcendence.


Prabhupāda: "A person who neither rejoices upon achieving something pleasant nor laments upon obtaining something unpleasant; who is self-intelligent, unbewildered and who knows the science of God, is to be understood as already situated in transcendence."

Yes. Go on.

Revatīnandana: Purport: "The symptoms of the self-realized person are given herein. The first symptom is that he is not illusioned by the false identification of the body with his true self."

Prabhupāda: Yes. So achieving something pleasant... Generally we accept a thing pleasant when it satisfies our senses. We accept it as pleasant. But actually, satisfaction of my sense is not real pleasure, because my senses are at the present moment diseased. Therefore, as it is stated in the Nārada Pañcarātra, that tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]:

[“’Bhakti, or devotional service, means engaging all our senses in the service of the Lord, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the master of all the senses. When the spirit soul renders service unto the Supreme, there are two side effects. One is freed from all material designations, and one’s senses are purified simply by being employed in the service of the Lord.’]

One has to purify the senses in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not to become void of the senses. The other philosophers, they say that "You don't desire." We say that we don't desire nonsense, but we desire Kṛṣṇa. Desire is there, but as soon as desire is purified, then I shall desire Kṛṣṇa. When one is desiring only Kṛṣṇa, that is his healthy state. And if somebody is desiring something else, something other than Kṛṣṇa, then he is to be understood in diseased condition.

So diseased condition means contaminated by māyā. This is external. So our philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is not to stop desiring but purify desiring. And how you can purify? By Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you desire... Just like—concrete example—if I desire a very nice apartment for my personal sense gratification, this is diseased desire. And if I desire a nice, costly temple for Kṛṣṇa, that is purified desire. So desire is there. You are sitting here in a very nice room, very cleansed, very good atmosphere. But this desire is purified desire. And if you require similar room for your sense gratification, that is impure desire.

So desire there must be. But when it is desired for Kṛṣṇa, it is purified desire, and when it is desired for non-Kṛṣṇa, then it is impurified. So those who are desiring for Kṛṣṇa, they are not behind any enjoyment. They are rather in perfect enjoyment. These Kṛṣṇa conscious students, they are desiring for Kṛṣṇa nice prasādam, so they are not bereft. Practically they are enjoying, but it is Kṛṣṇa-ized. Therefore their everything is becoming purified. This is the science.

How it is? Now, it is said here that "Who is self intelligent, unbewildered, and who knows the science of God." How do you know the science of God? The same example, that this finger, when it is in healthy condition, it serves the whole body. When it is not in a healthy condition it cannot serve. Similarly, we are part and parcel of God, or Kṛṣṇa. When we are engaged in transcendental loving service of God, that is our healthy condition. That is our natural condition. That is our situation in Brahman, ahaṁ brahmāsmi.

[Simply to understand that one is not matter but spirit soul (ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am by nature Brahman") is not sufficient knowledge for understanding the self and his activities. One must be situated in the activities of Brahman. Knowledge of those activities is explained by the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. Such transcendental knowledge can be appreciated in human society but not in animal society, as clearly indicated here by the word nṛṇām, "for the human beings." Human beings are meant for regulated life. By nature, there is regulation in animal life also, but that is not like the regulative life as described in the scriptures or by the authorities. Human life is regulated life, not animal life. In regulated life only can one understand transcendental knowledge. [SB 3.25.1 Purport]]

This is self-realization. Just like this finger. If it thinks, "I am finger of this body. My duty is to serve this whole body," this is healthy stage. Similarly, when we are fully convinced that "I am part and parcel of God..."

There are many examples. Just like you are American citizen. If you think yourself that "I am part and parcel of the State..." Sometime there is some advertisement that "If you spoil this thing, you must know you are spoiling your own thing, because the State is yours." Similarly, if I know the science of God, if I know science of Kṛṣṇa, then I am..., my duty is to utilize everything for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa.

Just like the same citizen who is conscious that "I am part and parcel of this State. I shall see that everything is nicely done for the interest of the State." In Communist State they are very much strict. In other State they are not so much strict, but in Communist State, if you go a little against the State, you are immediately punished.

So this is real knowledge of science of God, that "I am part and parcel of God, so my duty is that everything is nicely done, everything is nicely preserved, everything is nicely utilized for the service of God." That is the knowledge of science of God. I personally... Of course, in your country there is no water supply hydrant on the street, but in India that is a system: on big roads there are supply, water supply hydrant, because there are many poor men who cannot provide water supply pipes in their house. They take from the street.

So when I was passing—I do not know why; that is my habit—if I see that the water tap is open, I immediately close it. I do not like that the water is wasted, you see, because I think that "The government is spending so much money for supplying water, and this water is unnecessarily being lost. So why it should be?" That is also advertised in your country. When there is dropping in your bathroom, the authorities request you to stop that, because that drop of water costs many dollars for the management.

Similarly, when everything we see in connection—nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe—in connection with Kṛṣṇa, when everything we see that "This can be utilized very nicely for Kṛṣṇa's service," that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is God consciousness: everything to see in connection with Kṛṣṇa. The Gosvāmīs, they give us this formula. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ [Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.258].

[When one is not attached to anything but at the same time accepts anything in relation to Kṛṣṇa, one is rightly situated above possessiveness. On the other hand, one who rejects everything without knowledge of its relationship to Kṛṣṇa is not as complete in his renunciation.]

The Māyāvādī philosopher, they say that "This world is false. This world is false." Some philosophers, they are meditating to the voidness, that "These things are all nonsense. Voidness is best." This is frustration. But we know that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa and it can be used for Kṛṣṇa. Why void? Why false? Reality.

That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness: to accept everything in reality, not false. This tape recorder machine, it is material. The Māyāvāda philosophers, they will say it is false. We say, "It is not false; it is temporary. But it can be used for Kṛṣṇa." That is the best use of a bad bargain. Similarly, this body is not false, but it is temporary. How can I say false? If I give you a nice, I mean to say... What is called?

Viṣṇujana: Shock.

Prabhupāda: Shock, you will feel. So it is not false, but that feeling is temporary, that's all. So this body... The Bhāgavata says, asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ [SB 5.5.4].

[When a person considers sense gratification the aim of life, he certainly becomes mad after materialistic living and engages in all kinds of sinful activity. He does not know that due to his past misdeeds he has already received a body which, although temporary, is the cause of his misery. Actually the living entity should not have taken on a material body, but he has been awarded the material body for sense gratification. Therefore I think it not befitting an intelligent man to involve himself again in the activities of sense gratification by which he perpetually gets material bodies one after another.]

This body, although false or temporary, but when it is painful, I feel it. So how can I say it is false?

So everything created or given by God, we should not say it is false, but we should know that "This is God gifted, it is God's possession, so I must utilize it for God's purpose." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the knowledge of science of Kṛṣṇa. Everything... Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate. And,

prāpañcikatayā buddhyā
mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgo
phalgu vairāgya kathyate

[Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.258]

[When one is not attached to anything but at the same time accepts anything in relation to Kṛṣṇa, one is rightly situated above possessiveness. On the other hand, one who rejects everything without knowledge of its relationship to Kṛṣṇa is not as complete in his renunciation.]

Vairāgya means renunciation, and phalgu means without any value, or little, very little. Why should we give up this world? But the process is that give up the idea of sense enjoyment. That is required. That is real renunciation. "I shall not use it for my sense gratification. I shall utilize it for Kṛṣṇa's service." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Go on.

Revatīnandana: "He knows perfectly well that he is not this body but is the fragmental portion of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is therefore not joyful in achieving something, nor does he lament in losing anything which is related to this body. This steadiness of mind is called sthira-buddhi, or self-intelligence."

Prabhupāda: Sthira-buddhi. Sthira means steady, and buddhi means intelligence.

Revatīnandana: "He is therefore never bewildered by mistaking the gross body for the soul, nor does he accept the body as permanent and disregard the existence of the soul. This knowledge elevates him to the station of knowing the complete science of the Absolute Truth, namely Brahman, Paramātmā and Bhagavān."

Prabhupāda: Yes. The complete knowledge, Absolute Truth, means to understand three features of the Absolute Truth. One feature is Brahman, impersonal. The next feature is Paramātmā, localized. And the next feature is Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When one understands these three features of the Absolute Truth very perfectly, then he is in complete knowledge of the science of God. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate.

In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that human life is meant for inquiring the Absolute Truth. And the next verse the Absolute Truth is explained, vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvam [SB 1.2.11].

[Learned transcendentalists who know the Absolute Truth call this nondual substance Brahman, Paramātmā or Bhagavān.]

Those who are in knowledge of the Absolute Truth, they say, "Absolute Truth, that thing which is nondual." Nondual. "And that Absolute Truth is known in three phases." What is that? Brahman, Paramātmā and Bhagavān. There is no difference between Brahman and Paramātmā or Bhagavān, the same thing.

The same example again: Just like the sunshine, the sun disc and the sun-god within the sun disk. They are the same thing, light. But there is difference of degrees. The light and temperature which you feel in the sunshine is different from the light and temperature in the sun disc. And the light or temperature in the sun disc is different from the light and temperature of the sun-god. But they are all light.

Similarly, Absolute Truth is one—light—but there are degrees. If you become attached to impersonal Brahman, you simply enjoy the eternity feature of the Absolute Truth. If you simply try to understand the Supersoul by meditation, then you realize the eternity and knowledge aspect of the Absolute Truth. But if you realize the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then you realize eternity, knowledge and bliss, three things.

Because without being connected with Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no possibility of enjoying transcendental bliss. In the impersonal Brahman you can remain there eternally. In Paramātmā you can have knowledge. But in Bhagavān you have eternity, knowledge and transcendental bliss.

Revatīnandana: "He thus knows his constitutional position perfectly well without falsely trying to become one with the Supreme in all respects. This is called Brahman realization, or self-realization. Such steady consciousness is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Go on.

Revatīnandana: Verse 21: "Such a liberated person is not attracted to material sense pleasure but is always in trance, enjoying the pleasure within. In this way the self-realized person enjoys unlimited happiness, for he concentrates on the Supreme."

Prabhupāda: There is a word ātmārāma, in Sanskrit. Ātmārāma means one who is satisfied with his self. He is called ātmārāma. Because self is the basic principle of this body, the soul, so one who is satisfied with his soul, he is called ātmārāma, or self-realized person. One who seeks pleasure externally, he is materialist, and one who seeks pleasure internally, he is spiritualist. That is the difference. Yes.

Revatīnandana: "An intelligent person does not take part in the sources of misery, which are due to contact with the material senses. O son of Kuntī, such pleasures have a beginning and an end, and so the wise man does not delight in them."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Material pleasure is circumstantial, in contact with this body. Similarly material distress. So those who are ātmārāma, enjoying in the platform of soul, they are not concerned with this external pleasure and pain. Yes.

Revatīnandana: Verse 23: "Before giving up this present body, if one is able to tolerate the urges of the material senses and check the force of desire and anger, he is a yogī and is happy in this world."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the perfection of yoga practice. The yoga practice means one should be tolerant. According to yoga system there is a practice: In winter season they go deep into the water up to this. In cold winter they dip into the water up to this and meditate. And in scorching heat they, I mean to say, ignite fire all side and sit down in the midst and meditate. These are the processes. What is that? To learn toleration. Toleration.

But fortunately, we haven't got to do all these things. You see? [chuckles] We can chant very nicely in a nice room like this, with statues of Jagannātha, chanting and dancing, and derive thousand times greater and beneficial result than those practices. Besides that, if you try to imitate those practices, it is not possible at all. It may be possible for one or two person, but it cannot be practiced in a mass scale. But this practice of self-realization can be practiced by anyone, even by the children. Therefore it is universal self-realization process.

And in this age Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore recommends, kalau—kalau means in this Age of Kali—nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva: there is no other process feasible. No other process. Any process of self-realization will be very, very difficult. But here is a process, even if you have nothing, you can simply... God has given you this tongue, and God has given you this ear. Simply sit down. If you cannot, I mean to say, utilize your tongue in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, you simply sit down and let others chant, and you hear; you get the benefit. Who can give you more feasible program of self-realization than this?

Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu's recommendation, "There is no other alternative, no other alternative, no other alternative," is a fact. Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21].

[“’In this Age of Kali there is no other means, no other means, no other means for self-realization than chanting the holy name, chanting the holy name, chanting the holy name of Lord Hari.’]

Simply chant and you get the result. And those who are chanting, those who have joined this movement, those who are seriously engaged, ask them how they are advancing, how they are realizing. The method is very simple.

Hmm. Go on.

Revatīnandana: Verse 24: "One whose happiness is within, who is active within, and who rejoices within and is illumined within is actually the perfect mystic. He is liberated in the Supreme, and ultimately he attains the Supreme."

Prabhupāda: Within. Within means self-satisfied. Bhakti... How this process can give you that understanding within? How? One may question that "How it is possible within?" Yes, it is possible. The example is given by Gosvāmīs, that just like a hungry man, he wants some food, he's demanding some food, and if you give him nice food he eats, and with each morsel of food he realizes within that "I am eating. I am getting strength. I am satisfied." Is it not? Similarly, you begin this Kṛṣṇa consciousness chanting, you will feel yourself, "Yes. Yes, I am doing something. Yes, I am eating something. Yes, I am getting spiritual strength." Is it not a fact?

Actually, if somebody is disturbed, then it is to be understood that his disease is little more acute. Otherwise, in normal condition, if he chants and follows the regulation, then he will feel, "Yes, I am doing something. I am getting something. I am getting strength. I am getting satisfaction. I am feeing I am spiritually advancing." These things will manifest automatically simply by chanting.

Revatīnandana: Verse 25: "One who is beyond duality and doubt, whose mind is engaged within, who is always busy working for the welfare of all sentient beings and who is free from all sins achieves liberation in the Supreme."

Prabhupāda: Now, these things are very important things, "whose mind is engaged within, who is always busy working for the welfare of all sentient beings." This chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, it is welfare work for all sentient beings, even the worms, the microbes, the cockroaches. So many living entities are within this room. By hearing this vibration of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra they will be getting also the result.

That is described in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. When Lord Caitanya questioned Haridāsa Ṭhākura about the efficacy of chanting, how he described? You will find it in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya. It is a fact. If you are chanting within this room, and if you find nobody is coming to participate in the kīrtana, don't be disappointed. There are many germs, worms, cockroaches within this room—they are being benefited. They are being benefited. You cannot find any place without any living entities. You just find out one hole, you will see hundreds of ants are coming out.

So living entities are in the air, in the water, in the holes—everywhere. And this vibration... Everyone, every living entity, has got this ear. So this sound is so powerful because it is spiritual that it will act even on the ants and the trees and the birds and the bees, what to speak of human being. It is so nice thing.

So those who are chanting... "One who is always busy working." What is the busy-ness of these Kṛṣṇa conscious students? They are busy in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, in distributing knowledge in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore they are doing the best welfare work in the world. Other welfare work will be finished as soon as this body is finished. But these welfare activities will not be finished. If one hears one day, one minute, one second this vibration of chanting, it will act someday. Therefore this is the best welfare activity in the human society.

"And who is free from all sins achieves liberation in the Supreme." So it is said that,

eka kṛṣṇa-nāme yata pāpa hare,
pāpī haya tata pāpa karibare nare


The Kṛṣṇa name is so powerful transcendentally, spiritually, that if you chant once "Kṛṣṇa," all your sinful activities, reaction, are immediately finished. One may say that "He was not so sinful. He was little sinful; therefore it is finished." But this verse says that the vibration of "Kṛṣṇa," this sound, has so much potency that it can finish the reaction of all sinful activities as you cannot perform in your various lives. Even if you are very expert in committing sinful activities, still, this will finish, provided it is chanted offenselessly. It has got the power.

So if we always chant... Suppose I am now freed from all sinful reaction. I may be attacked again. That is quite possible. I may be free from the disease but I may be attacked again by this disease. That is possible. But if you always keep yourself constantly in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa—therefore we supply the beads and ask the student, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa"—then sinful activities cannot touch you. These are the processes. And if you keep yourself without being touched by the sinful activities, then one who does so achieves liberation in the Supreme. Then your liberation is guaranteed.


Revatīnandana: Purport: "Only a person who is fully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be said to be engaged in welfare work for all living entities."

Prabhupāda: Yes. For all living entities. You can open a hospital for the human being, but where is your hospital for the tiger? Can any man open a hospital for the tigers, for the snakes? And why not? You are compassionate with living entities. Are they not living entities? This is the frailty of imperfect knowledge. They are giving protection..., the state is giving protection to the national, but the cows are not national; they should be killed. But the definition of national is that one who is born in that land is called national. Are the cows are not born in this land? Why for them killing, and only for the human being protection? This is imperfect, imperfect knowledge.

So whatever a man is doing, you will find some imperfectness. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that it has no imperfectness. It is all-perfect. It is for all living entities, not that I shall simply give protection to my brother, my sister or my father, but even to the lowest animal we shall give protection. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Therefore, "Only a person who is fully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be said to be engaged in welfare work for all living entities." Why discrimination? Why protect this and not that? That is imperfectness. The human society cannot give protection to all living entities, but here is a scheme which can give protection to all living entities.

Yes. Go on.

Revatīnandana: "When a person is actually in the knowledge that Kṛṣṇa is the fountainhead of everything, then to act in that spirit is to act for everyone."

Prabhupāda: Yes. If we can understand... Just like if you are affectionate to his father..., to your father, then you naturally become affectionate to your brother. They are preaching universal brotherhood, but "Where is the father, sir?" "Oh, father is missing." Then where is the question of brotherhood? If you don't find your father, then how do you select your brother? These are the imperfectness. The... If you actually want to do something for your brother in universal brotherhood, first of all establish your relationship with father, which you have lost.

Go on.

Revatīnandana: "The sufferings of humanity are due to forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa as the supreme enjoyer."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because we are forgotten of Kṛṣṇa, or God, therefore in your country you are throwing away so many tons of grains into the sea—because we have no connection with Kṛṣṇa. But if one thinks, "Well, these grains are supplied by Kṛṣṇa, our father. Why it should be thrown into the sea? Let it be distributed to other countries where they are suffering for grains..." But because want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they cannot think like that. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should be taken very seriously to solve all the questions of the world. But they want to remain in ignorance, in darkness. Let us do our duty. What can be done?


Revatīnandana: "The sufferings of humanity are due to forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa as the supreme enjoyer, the supreme proprietor and the supreme friend."

Prabhupāda: If I know Kṛṣṇa as the supreme proprietor, then how can I throw so many tons of grains into the water without asking the proprietor? But I do not know; I am thinking I am proprietor. That is nescience. That is ignorance, practical. Because I know..., I do not know who is the proprietor, therefore I am doing whimsically. But I will have to...

Suppose if I do not know who is the proprietor of this building, if I do something harm to this building, does it mean that because I do not know who is the proprietor, I shall be free from the punishable law? No. I may think that there is no proprietor, but actually there is proprietor. I do not know.

Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]:

[The sages, knowing Me as the ultimate purpose of all sacrifices and austerities, the Supreme Lord of all planets and demigods and the benefactor and well-wisher of all living entities, attain peace from the pangs of material miseries.]

"I am the supreme enjoyer. I am the proprietor of all planetary system." Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām: "I am the friend of everyone. I am supplying the grains for all living entities. Why you are destroying it? You shall be punished."

So people do not see the effect of these abominable activities because they do not know Kṛṣṇa. But they will have to suffer the consequence. Time will come when there will be devastation, just like there was First War, Second War in Europe, and there was mass devastation. So these are the reaction because we do not know Kṛṣṇa. Therefore this movement is very important movement, every gentleman, every serious man to take to it. Yes.

Go on.

Revatīnandana: "Therefore to act to revive this consciousness..."

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is simply want of consciousness. Just like a boy is not educated. He is given education just to give a consciousness, "This is this. This is this." That's all. So therefore the whole movement should be to change the consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.


Revatīnandana: "Therefore to act to revive this consciousness within the entire human society is the highest welfare work."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: One cannot be engaged in first-class welfare work without being liberated in the Supreme. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person has no doubt about the supremacy of Kṛṣṇa. He has no doubt because he is completely freed from all sins. This is the state of divine love.

"A person engaged only in administering to the physical welfare of human society cannot factually help anyone. Temporary relief of the external body and the mind of the living entity is not satisfactory. The real cause of his difficulties..."

Prabhupāda: Just like in New York I have seen there is mental hospital, big mental hospital. What is that?

Devotee: Bellevue.

Prabhupāda: Bellevue. Simply building is increasing. Every year the building is increasing. What is that? The number of lunatic persons are increasing. You see? But they are under welfare activities. But they do not see that "How much welfare I am doing? Why the patients are increasing?" You see? "Oh, we have increased the hospital." That means you increase the disease. They are very much proud of having a big hospital. [laughter] [laughs] Just see the ignorance. They are not sorry that "Why so much big hospital? Why so much big prison house?" The number of prisoners are increased.

So rascals are there in... engaged in welfare activities. You see? And they are in charge of welfare activities. I do not wish to criticize, but there are so many things, simply rascaldom—without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply rascaldom. [indistinct] Yes.

Go on.

Revatīnandana: "The real cause of his difficulties in the hard struggle for life may be found in his forgetfulness of his relationship with the Supreme Lord."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just change the consciousness and everything will be clear. Just change the consciousness. Real treatment is to get him Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is real treatment. Yes.

Revatīnandana: "When a man is fully conscious of his relationship with Kṛṣṇa, he is actually a liberated soul, although he may be in the material tabernacle."

Prabhupāda: That's all right. So please try to push on this movement as far as possible. That is our duty. [devotees pay obeisances] [pause]

Devotee (1): Bīrabhadra has a question.

Bīrabhadra: You said that, um...You said that there are many living entities in the temple and that they can hear, that everything can hear, has ears. But...

Prabhupāda: They can eat also. Your Kṛṣṇa prasādam left, they come and eat.

Bīrabhadra: But a snake, he doesn't have ears. A snake, he doesn't have ears.

Prabhupāda: Who says?

Bīrabhadra: A snake.

Prabhupāda: No, they have got very nice ear. Yes. You do not know. [laughter] The snake... There is a statement, the snake, they can hear very nicely. The snakes are charmed by nice musical sound. Yes. The snake charmer in India, they sing very nicely, flute, and the snake comes and... [laughter] Like this. Immediately. I have seen. And when he comes, then they have got methods to capture the snake.

And besides that, there is another example, of foolish man. The foolish men are compared like the frogs. The general example is that somebody is chanting or singing something. The example is that by such singing they are losing their duration of life. As the frog sings... Have you heard any sound of the frog? "Ka-kara-kaa, ka-kara-kaa." You have heard? [laughter] Have you heard? Yes?

So what is the result of that sound? In rainy season the frogs, they sing very nicely. They like rainy season. "Ka-kara-kaa, ka-kara-kaa, ka-kara-kaa," like that. The result is the snake can understand, "Here is a frog." He stealthily comes, and immediately finishes "ka-kara-kaa." [laughter] [laughs]

Similarly, anything vibration, except this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are like "ka-kara-kaa." And the result is that one day Yamarāja, the superintendent of death, comes and captures: "All right. Come on. That's all. Finished. Finish your 'ka-kara-kaa.' " He might have been very great lecturer, politician, but when death comes, your "ka-kara-kaa" finished. Immediately "ka-kara-kaa" finished. You have seen. Your President, Mr. Kennedy, was going to lecture, or he finished some lecture, is going to another place and the "ka-kara-kaa" finished, immediately.

So we should be ready always that this "ka-kara-kaa," this material vibration, this lecturing, this planning, at any moment can be finished. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. If you are finished, then you go to Vaikuṇṭha immediately. Don't be practicing "ka-kara-kaa." Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Even if we are finished... We can be finished. We are... Now modern life is that we are traveling in aeroplane. It can be crashed at any moment.

But those who are ka-kara-kaa's, they'll be finished; and they are chanting, they will go to Vaikuṇṭha. Finishing will be there. It is not that because we are Kṛṣṇa conscious we will not be finished. The example is that you'll be captured by the mouth of a cat, but when the cat captures with its mouth, its kitties they feel very good pleasure. And when he captures a rat, oh, it finished.

Similarly, everyone will be captured by the laws of nature, but a devotee will be carried with great care to Vaikuṇṭha, and others will be thrown again into this material existence. But people will say, "Oh, your devotee is also dying, and the nondevotee is dying," just like the foolish man. The cat is capturing in the mouth both the kitty and the rat. They are not same thing. Apparently it seems that the same thing, but it is not the same thing.

Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]:

[One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna.]

"Just after finishing this body he does not come again to this material world. He goes directly to Me." So there must be death either of the devotee or of the nondevotee. But those who are devotees, constantly in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they will be carried to Vaikuṇṭha, and others will come back to accept any form of body.

Therefore the method should be that we should sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ [Bg. 8.6].

[Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, that state he will attain without fail.]

Twenty-four hours, we shall remain in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Even death takes place, you are not loser. That's all. You are gainer here; you are gainer there, after death. Sādhu māro vā jīvo vā. Those who are sādhu, devotees, they either live or die—their benefit is there. When they live, they chant, dance, and eat Kṛṣṇa prasāda, enjoy, and when they die, they go to Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Where is the loss? There is no loss. So keep yourself sādhu. Sādhu. Sādhu means saintly.

And who is a saintly? That is also described in Bhagavad-gītā. Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30].

[Even if one commits the most abominable actions, if he is engaged in devotional service, he is to be considered saintly because he is properly situated.]

A person who is constantly in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is sādhu; he is saintly person. Sādhur eva sa mantavya. Even if you see sometimes that he is doing something which is not very good, but still, because he has kept himself tight in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is sādhu, he is saintly person. These things are..., you will find in the Bhagavad-gītā.

So try to keep yourself always in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you are safe in any circumstance. So we should mold our life in such a way that we cannot go out of the orbit of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Either you become a carpenter of the temple, or a gardener of the temple, or a cooker of the temple, or a typewriter of the temple, or a tape recorder of the temple—anything, because it is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, therefore you are safe, because you are thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That is required, sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ [Bg. 8.6]

[Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, that state he will attain without fail.]

Always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, any way, this way or that way. That is meditation; that is trance; that is everything. Yes.

Madhudviṣa: Prabhupāda, when the living entity, when the jīva leaves the body at death, is there any interim period before it takes up another body, or does it happen immediately?

Prabhupāda: Immediately. This body, just like it is bursting. The bursting, and the real soul particle comes out. Now he is placed according to his karma, or work. That is under this superior management. That is not in your hand. So if you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you are under the control of this nature. So nature will put you into the semina of a particular father. That means the body which you actually deserve by your activities, so which you are..., that body will be given to you. And if you have desired always Kṛṣṇa, you will have a body where you can enjoy Kṛṣṇa, your spiritual body.

So therefore it is upon me, what we want. So we have to simply pray to Kṛṣṇa, as Lord Caitanya has taught us, ayi nanda-tanuja patitaṁ kiṅkaraṁ māṁ viṣame bhavāmbudhau [Cc. Antya 20.32, Śikṣāṣṭaka 5]:

[“’O My Lord, O Kṛṣṇa, son of Mahārāja Nanda, I am Your eternal servant, but because of My own fruitive acts I have fallen into this horrible ocean of nescience. Now please be causelessly merciful to Me. Consider Me a particle of dust at Your lotus feet.’]

"This material atmosphere is a big ocean of nescience. Somehow or other I am put into this, fallen. Please pick me up. Please pick me up and make the..., one dust of Your lotus feet." That should be the only prayer: "Please pick me up." Then He will pick up. And tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9].

[One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna.]

Immediately after leaving your body, you will go to Kṛṣṇa. Yes.

Lady devotee: It says in the Bhagavad-gītā that the oṁ sound, oṁkāra, is a representation of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lady devotee: Is it different from the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra?

Prabhupāda: No.

Lady devotee: No? Would it have the same effect, meaning [indistinct]?

Prabhupāda: Not same effect. If you chant oṁ, then you go to impersonal Brahman. But if you chant "Kṛṣṇa," then you reach Kṛṣṇa, person. Just now I explained Bhagavān..., Brahman, Paramātmā and Bhagavān. If you chant oṁ, then you reach Brahman or Paramātmā. But if you chant Kṛṣṇa, then you reach Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavān.

Devotee (2): If somebody asks us on the street when we're preaching, "How do we know that the scripture...

Prabhupāda: [indistinct]

Devotee (2): ...is authoritative?" How do we answer?

Prabhupāda: I do not follow what do you say. [indistinct]

Devotee (2): If on the street when we're preaching, somebody says, "How do you know the scripture is authoritative? How do you know that Kṛṣṇa..." [break] [end]