Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Ādi-līlā 7.108 , San Francisco , 1967-02-18
Prabhupāda: So, Brahman means "the greatest." So what is the idea of the greatest? The greatest means... That is described by Parāśara-sūtra, that He is the greatest in wealth, greatest in fame, greatest in knowledge, greatest in renunciation, greatest in beauty, everything, whatever attractive. How, how you can understand "greatest"? "Greatest" does not mean that sky is the greatest.
That is impersonal theory. But our "greatest" idea is that one who can swallow millions of sky within Himself, He is greatest. The material conception, they cannot go further. They can simply think of the greatest: the sky. That's all. "As great as the sky." But we Vaiṣṇava, we see that Kṛṣṇa has within His mouth millions of skies. So who is greatest? Kṛṣṇa is greatest or the sky is greatest?
This is the difference between the Māyāvādī philosophers. Just like Caitanya..., Kṛṣṇa, when He was boy, He was eating clay. His mother asked, "Oh, just open Your mouth. I want to see what You are eating." And Kṛṣṇa showed him [her] that millions of planets and millions of skies are within the mouth.
So He is greatest, who can show that "Millions of skies are within Me." He is greatest. That means greatest in opulence of strength..., greatest in strength, greatest in wealth, great..., everything greatest. He is greatest. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... He says Brahman means the greatest, and greatest means one who is greatest in six opulences.
Now, so there are Upaniṣads. Generally they take eleven Upaniṣads primarily, but there are 108 Upaniṣads. Sometimes the explanation is given that "Why we have got 108 beads?" "Because there are 108 Upaniṣad."
So chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa with 108 beads means that we are surpassing the study of 108 Upaniṣads. Another meaning is that there are 108 damsels who served Kṛṣṇa with all respect at Vṛndāvana. So that is also another explanation, 108. We are serving Kṛṣṇa's servitors, hundred and..., chief damsels of..., at Vṛndāvana.
So these 108 Upaniṣads are described, īśa kena kaṭha praśna muṇḍa māṇḍūkyo taittirī... You can count how many: Īśopaniṣad, Kenopaniṣad, Kaṭhopaniṣad, Praśnopaniṣad, Muṇḍakopaniṣad, Māṇḍūkyopaniṣad, Taittirīyopaniṣad. Then aitareyas ca chāndogya bṛhad-āraṇyakam tathā: then Aitareya Upaniṣad, Chāndogyopaniṣad, Bṛhad-āraṇyakopaniṣad, Brahmokaivalyopaniṣad, Jābālopaniṣad.
There are so many Upaniṣad, 108 Upaniṣad. Āruṇeyopaniṣad, Garbho, Nārāyaṇo, Haṁsa. This Haṁsadūta, the name, the Haṁsa Upaniṣad, it comes from Haṁsa. Garbho nārāyaṇo haṁso bindūro nārada sikaḥ: Sika-upaniṣad, Nārada Upaniṣad.
There are so many Upaniṣad; we cannot remember them. Out of them, nine Upaniṣad, just like Īśopaniṣad, Kenopaniṣad, Kaṭhopaniṣad, Muṇḍakopaniṣad, Māṇḍūkyopaniṣad, Aitareyopaniṣad, Taittirīya Upaniṣad, just like, these nine Upaniṣad are very much popular, and generally people read these nine Upaniṣad.
Now, so far Upaniṣads are concerned, here are some of the notes from different Upaniṣads given by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. He's quoting just like the statement of Upaniṣad,
[The Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete, and because He is completely perfect, all emanations from Him, such as this phenomenal world, are perfectly equipped as complete wholes. Whatever is produced of the Complete Whole is also complete in itself. Because He is the Complete Whole, even though so many complete units emanate from Him, He remains the complete balance.]
This is statement of one Upaniṣad, that the Supreme is pūrṇam, means complete. There is no minus; it is always full, always pūrṇa. Pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idam. And because this creation, material creation, is emanated from that supreme complete, therefore this is also complete. Pūrṇam idam. Pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate. If a thing is complete and full, then the products should be also complete and full. So these are the statements.
So how Kṛṣṇa is complete? Kṛṣṇa is complete—His energy, His opulence, His beauty, His knowledge. Similarly, He's complete always. Then another statement, vicitra śakti puruṣa purāṇa. Another statement of Vedic literature, Upani..., that vicitra śakti puruṣa purāṇa. That Supreme Absolute Truth is a puruṣa. Purusa means enjoyer, man.
Man is supposed to be the enjoyer. He's not woman. Woman is supposed to be enjoyed. Therefore this very word is used: puruṣa. And purāṇa, the oldest man. Oldest man. Nobody... Because He's the cause of all causes; therefore He should be the oldest. And we are also oldest, because we are part and parcel. We are also oldest.
That is stated in the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit, pūrṇo nityaḥ purāṇaḥ...
[For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.]
Nityaḥ śāśvataḥ ayaṁ purāṇaḥ. Purāṇa means the oldest. We are also the oldest. So because part and parcel, it is always with the Supreme. Just like the molecule of sunshine: they are part and parcel of the sun. Whenever there is sun, oh, the molecules of sunshine is also there. Similarly, we are molecules of the Supreme. Therefore whenever the Supreme is there, we are also there. Therefore we are also purāṇa.
And puruṣa. Puruṣa means the tendency of becoming enjoyer. So that tendency we have also got. But we do not know that we can enjoy in cooperation with the Supreme because we are subordinate. Differently, we cannot enjoy. As soon as we make our plan to enjoy life differently with Kṛṣṇa, then we fall under the clutches of māyā.
We cannot do that. Therefore we have to revive our consciousness that we agree to cooperate with Kṛṣṇa. That will give us ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt [Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12]. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt.
[By nature, the Supreme Lord is blissful.]
Just like if you want to enjoy your life, some way or other if you can secure a very nice service in the government, oh, your life is fulfilled. But if you want to enjoy your life separately... The government is all-powerful. If you become a departmental secretary, oh, immediately you get five thousand dollars and everything is all right. Similarly, some way or other if you can become a secretary of Kṛṣṇa, then your all problems solved. Don't try to enjoy independently. That is māyā. That is māyā.
Similarly, there are other statements. Sa vṛkṣaḥ kalaḥ kṛtibhiḥ paro 'nyat yasmād prapañca-parivartateyaṁ dharmavahaṁ pāpamaruddham. Then another statement, vedāham etat puruṣaṁ mahāntam āditya-varṇaṁ tamasaḥ parastād, that vedāham: "I understand that Supreme Person." Vedāham. Vedāham means "I understand." Puruṣa. He's again puruṣa. In the Bhagavad-gītā also you'll find, when Arjuna is recognizing Kṛṣṇa, he said, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān puruṣam [Bg. 10.12]. Again puruṣam.
[Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Brahman, the ultimate, the supreme abode and purifier, the Absolute Truth and the eternal divine person. You are the primal God, transcendental and original, and You are the unborn and all-pervading beauty. All the great sages such as Nārada, Asita, Devala, and Vyāsa proclaim this of You, and now You Yourself are declaring it to me.]
So God is never woman. The foolish person who says that God is..., can be worshiped as woman, as mother... No. That is not according to Vedic literature. God is always father. Therefore Bible is all right: conception of father, not mother. Not that "I worship Kali, goddess mother, and become God." These are all nonsense. He's always father, puruṣa.
Everywhere we find puruṣa. Never we find that God is a female. No. God cannot be female. Female is energy. Just like Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. Rādhā is Kṛṣṇa, but the energy of Kṛṣṇa, pleasure potency of Kṛṣṇa. There is no difference between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, and still, Kṛṣṇa is male and Rādhā is female. So God, conception of God, always...
[Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.7].
[O Supreme Lord, You are the Supreme Maheśvara, the worshipable Deity of all the demigods and the Supreme Lord of all lords. You are the controller of all controllers, the Personality of Godhead, the Lord of everything worshipable.]
That, that puruṣa, that...
[break] ...mahāntam. The greatest, mahāntam. Mahāntam means the last word of the greatest. Antam means the last, and mahā means great. We have got idea of great, great, greater, greater, greater, greatness, greatness. Where we finish all greatness, He's mahāntam. Mahāntam āditya-varṇam. Āditya-varṇam means... Āditya means the sun. Just like sun: wherever the sun planet is there, oh, there is sunshine, always shining. So where the sun planet... Wherefrom... The sun planet is also a material thing like this earth. Wherefrom the...
[break] ...inhabitants, they're all fiery. Therefore their glaring effulgence is being manifested.
So if you can see in the material world such effulgence of a certain point, particular planet, how can you disbelieve that Kṛṣṇa planet is more dazzling? Kṛṣṇa planet is more dazzling, and from Kṛṣṇa planet the brahma-jyotir is emanating.
[I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, whose effulgence is the source of the nondifferentiated Brahman mentioned in the Upaniṣads, being differentiated from the infinity of glories of the mundane universe appears as the indivisible, infinite, limitless, truth.]
We get this information from Brahma-saṁhitā that, by spreading His effulgence, yasya prabhā... Prabhā means illumination, prakāśa. Just like this light is illuminating. So yasya prabhā. "Because illuminating light is emanating from His body..." Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi: "In that effulgence, millions and millions of planets are generating."
The same example you can take, that all these planets... This is, I mean to say, scientifically true, that all these planets, they have generated from the sunshine. Similarly, spiritual world, that effulgence of the body of Kṛṣṇa, that is spread, and there hundreds and millions of Vaikuṇṭha planets are there. Mahāntam āditya-varṇam. And then where is that āditya? Where is that supreme sun? Tamasaḥ parastāt: that is beyond this darkness.
This material world is dark by nature. We have several times explained. Therefore in that temporary... Now, just see the arrangement. The sun is there to drive out darkness, but the night is also there so that we can understand that by nature it is dark. Simply by timely appearance of the sun, it becomes day.
Therefore there is day and night, day and night, day and night. Tamasaḥ parastāt. And other Vedic literatures—
[Bṛhad-āraṇyaka Upaniṣad 1.3.28]:
[Lead me from untruth to truth! Lead me from darkness to light! Lead me from death to immortality.]
"Don't keep yourself in this darkness. Just try to get out of it and go to that Brahman effulgence." Jyotir gamaḥ. Tamasaḥ parastāt. Then another Upaniṣad, patiṁ patīnāṁ paramaṁ parastāt [Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.7]. Patiṁ patīnām.
[O Supreme Lord, You are the Supreme Maheśvara, the worshipable Deity of all the demigods and the Supreme Lord of all lords. You are the controller of all controllers, the Personality of Godhead, the Lord of everything worshipable.]
There are many patis. Patis means proprietor, or husband. A husband is also considered a proprietor of the woman according to Vedic literature; therefore the word dāsī. A woman's surname is dāsī. She agrees to serve the man. You have observed, when we get young couples married, we get it promised: the husband promises that "I take charge of your life. Your whole life shall be dependent upon me. I take full charge of you." And the woman agrees, "Yes, I also agree to serve you the whole life." This is marriage.
The... If we exploit, of course... But this is the nice arrangement. This is cooperation. A woman agrees that "I shall serve you," because the man requires woman's service in so many ways: by her ser..., cooking, by her embracing, by her becoming beautiful, so many ways. That is the encouragement so that he can work, he can live peacefully, he can discharge spiritual duties nicely. So there is cooperation. Stri-puruṣa. Puruṣa is supposed to be enjoyer, but both their life become sublime when there is cooperation.
So patiḥ patīnām. So everyone is given the chance of becoming a pati. Pati means husband, or proprietor. Even the ant, it has got also a companion, female ant. Even the dog, it has got also companion. Even the small bird, even the insect, even the fly—everyone is given. This is called viṣaya. Viṣaya means material enjoyment.
[After many, many births and deaths one achieves the rare human form of life, which, although temporary, affords one the opportunity to attain the highest perfection. Thus a sober human being should quickly endeavor for the ultimate perfection of life as long as his body, which is always subject to death, has not fallen down and died. After all, sense gratification is available even in the most abominable species of life, whereas Kṛṣṇa consciousness is possible only for a human being.]
This viṣaya, this material enjoyment, is provided by the laws of nature everywhere. Don't think that it is in the human society there is love and there is male-female combination. No. Everywhere. That is nature's arrangement. Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. Therefore Bhāgavata asks everybody that "Don't be after viṣaya. Viṣaya is already arranged. Accept it as it is." But tūrṇaṁ yateta na mṛtyuṁ pateta yāvat niḥśreyasāya: "Your endeavor should be how to elevate yourself spiritually. Don't bother about viṣaya. Viṣaya is already arranged by nature's way."
So patiṁ patīnāṁ paramaṁ parastāt. Now, He's also..., God is also, as we are given the chance of becoming husband, similarly, He's the supreme husband. Supreme husband. Now, if He's the supreme husband and if He marries sixteen thousand wives, it is very difficult for Him? It is not at all difficult.
So people do not understand, do not consult this Vedic literature, how it is stated the Supreme. How one can become Supreme? The Supreme... We judge the Supreme in the same philosophy, frog philosophy. "Atlantic Ocean? Oh, it may be a little bigger than this well. That's all." So our calculation of God is always like that. "Kṛṣṇa, He looks like us, just like a man. So what is there? He may be a little powerful than me.
All right, He has spoken Bhagavad-gītā. All right. He's little more wiser than us." So we always compare with us. But it is not. He's supreme. We have no idea of the Supreme. Therefore we forget personality. Patiṁ patī... It is clearly stated, pati. Can pati, the husband or proprietor, can become imperson? No. When the conception of pati, husband and proprietor, is there, then He is personal. Patiṁ patīnāṁ paramaṁ parastāt mahān prabhavaiḥ puruṣaḥ [Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.7].
Then again there is another statement: mahān prabhavaiḥ puruṣaḥ. The Lord Caitanya is called mahāprabhu, mahānprabhu. Prabhu, master. There are different kinds of master, but He's the mahān-prabhu, the supreme master, supreme master, and puruṣa at the same time. Prabhu, you can say... A woman also can become the master. Just like in England there is queen. But no. Puruṣa. He is never woman. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.8].
[The Supreme Lord has nothing to do. Nothing is equal to Him or greater than Him. He acts in different phases by manifesting His parts and parcels, which are all simultaneously differently situated by His unlimited, variegated potencies. Each potency acts quite naturally in sequences, providing Him full knowledge, power and pastimes.]
Then again another statement from the Upaniṣad, that "The Supreme has multi-energies." Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. He has got so much energies that it appears that it is being automatically done. Just like a, I mean to say, very important man you see. You go there and you... Suppose you ask him for some help, and suppose you want one million dollar, and if he gives you a slip, oh, you take it from there. If you get immediately, then you will understand, "Oh, how much powerful he is. Simply by a pencil, like this, I got millions of dollars!"
So God is so powerful. It appears..., everything is wonderfully, this material nature is working. But it is due to God's energy. His energies are so multifarious, He's so expert, that it appears automatically being done. Not automatically. Not automatically. No. Just like a big mathematician: you give him a very big sum, oh, and within a second, he will at once add it. And for me, I shall commit so many mistakes and perhaps the whole day will go on. Still, I shall not be able. Especially myself. I am never correct in adding.
So if the... Supreme power means He has got so much energies, different kinds of energy, that it appears that there is no background, but the nature is working automatically. No. Bhagavad-gītā says no. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]:
[This material nature is working under My direction, O son of Kuntī, and it is producing all moving and unmoving beings. By its rule this manifestation is created and annihilated again and again.]
"The whole nature is working under My superintendence." But the superintendence is so perfect and so nice and so energetic that there cannot be any mistake. So this is called parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate.
Any question? Thank you very much. [break]
Bhaktijana: What's the relationship between Kṛṣṇa and Rādhā? Rādhā is the energy of Kṛṣṇa?
Ravindra-svarūpa: If the brahma-jyotir is in the spiritual sky, how could we reach it in our mind? Is it in our mind also?
Prabhupāda: It is here also. Just like the sunshine, when it is covered by cloud, the sunshine is also there. Do you follow? You see that the sky is covered, but still you say, "It is day." Why? The sunshine is there. Similarly, brahma-jyotir is here also. Sarvaṁ khalu iti brahma: "Everything is Brahman," but it is covered by māyā. Therefore the full-fledged brahma-jyotir, you cannot see.
Ravindra-svarūpa: I thought it was a place that was far away.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is... Just like above the cloud there is sunshine, fully. We have seen it in an aeroplane. This airlines, US Airlines, they say "friendly sky." So go to the friendly sky. Why do you remain here, nonsense sky, always covered with cloud? Go to the friendly sky. Just go above the cloud. The cloud is māyā.
Go above the māyā; then you see. You are seeing already, but it is not full-fledged experience. Everything we are seeing. We have experienced God's power, God's energy. But because we are in ignorance, therefore we cannot conceive perfectly. And as soon as you are above the māyā... Māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14].
[This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it.]
That māyā you can, I mean to say, surpass simply by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As you become full-fledged Kṛṣṇa conscious, oh, then you see always brahma-jyotir and Brahman and Kṛṣṇa and everything. And so far your present condition is, you are seeing also just now. Because without Brahman, there cannot be any existence.
So one has to learn. In the flower you can see. In the tree you can see. In the taste you can see. In the water you can see. In the sound you can see. That is all stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya [Bg. 7.8]:
[O son of Kuntī [Arjuna], I am the taste of water, the light of the sun and the moon, the syllable om in the Vedic mantras; I am the sound in ether and ability in man.]
"I am the taste of the water." Water is so popular, so tasteful to every living entity. Man, beast, birds—anyone—water requires. Why? There is a nice taste, quench our thirst. And Kṛṣṇa says, raso 'ham apsu: "That taste in water, I am." So if you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, if you know from the śāstras that "This taste is Kṛṣṇa," then at once you become Kṛṣṇa conscious while drinking water. "I am sound in the sky."
So as soon as there is some sound, "Oh, here is Kṛṣṇa." In this way, you study Kṛṣṇa, you'll see. In the taste of water you will find Kṛṣṇa. In the sound vibration you will find Kṛṣṇa. If there is somebody very powerful, you will find Him Kṛṣṇa. These description are there in the Bhagavad-gītā. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yes?
Devotee: Swāmījī, you said that, one time, that brahma-jyotir is like the pure light, and it's filtered in the material world through the modes?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Material world means three modes.
Devotee: So is that like...? Well... Because the modes don't exist in the spiritual world. Is that right?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like if you go above the cloud, there is no cloud. That's all. But there is... In a certain portion of the sky, there is cloud. And that cloud is also not permanent. Sometimes sky is clear of all clouds, but sometimes cloud is there. The cloud is generating in the sky and it is vanquished in the sky. Similarly, this material world is sometimes being manifested and sometimes there is no manifestation, simply spiritual.
Spiritual is always eternal. The sky, sunshine, is always eternal. Take this crude example. But the cloud is not eternal. It comes and goes. Although cloud is a product of the same sunshine, cloud is not independent. By interaction of sunshine, there is cloud, and that cloud is..., there is no cloud. Similarly, this material world is just like cloud. It appears. It acts. When there is cloud, there is torrents of rain. Oh, there are so many productions on account of rain. Everything becomes green.
So we give so much importance to the cloud, and it is important also—but it is temporary. As soon as the cloud is over, the greenness is gone. There is no rain. Nothing, nothing. And when the sky is clear, you'll see, "Oh, where is cloud? Where is cloud?" Similarly, this māyā means it appears like the cloud, and it disappears like the cloud. But the eternal brahma-jyotir remains.
Bhaktijana: Did Kṛṣṇa create us for..., to serve Him?
Bhaktijana: Did Kṛṣṇa create us to serve Him?
Bhaktijana: And to enjoy us?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Very nice. So we should prepare ourselves to our healthy condition. That is our healthy condition. As soon as we understand that Kṛṣṇa created us... Kṛṣṇa created... There is no creation. Just like if I say that my hand is created—no, it is not created. As long as the body is there, the hand is there. Otherwise, there is no meaning of body.
Similarly, we are not created. Kṛṣṇa is always there; we are also always there. And there are millions and millions of liberated soul who are engaged in Kṛṣṇa. They never misuse their independence. And we small quantity, we misused our independence. We wanted to enjoy separately. Therefore we are conditioned.
Bhaktijana: But there are, there are many...?
Prabhupāda: ...liberated souls. They are never conditioned. They never become conditioned. Yes?
Devotee: You mean they never were conditioned at any time or...
Devotee: You said there were millions of souls...
Prabhupāda: Yes. They were never conditioned. They were never conditioned. They are called nitya-mukta, eternally liberated. We are only simple few, this material world. Just like I have several times told you that the prison house. The population of prison house is nothing in comparison to the whole population.
What is that? Suppose in New York there is a prison house. Oh, what may be the number? A few thousand maybe? But here, millions. Similarly, the liberated souls are millions; we are only few thousands, or hundreds. Ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42].
[But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe.]
We are thinking this universe is very great. It is nothing in comparison to the whole creation of the Lord. You are seeing only universe, but there are millions of universes like this. All together, they are ekāṁśena sthito jagat. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. This is only a part of Kṛṣṇa's creation.
One devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa, er, Lord Caitanya, requested, "My dear Lord, You have come to deliver all the fallen souls. You please take all the conditioned souls of this universe, and if You think they are not competent, they are sinful, You can give me all the sin to me. I shall suffer for them, but You kindly take." So this is the desire of a pure devotee, that "All may go with Kṛṣṇa. Let them become liberated. I shall suffer all their..."
Now, Caitanya Mahāprabhu replied that "Suppose I keep your request; I take these, all the living entities of this universe. Do you think, is there any loss of this material world? It is just like a one mustard seed in the bag of mustard seed." So this universe is just like one mustard seed in one big bag of mustard seed. Can you count how many mustard seeds are in a big bag?
So the idea was that Caitanya Mahāprabhu replied that "Even this universe is delivered fully, oh, there is a big bag of mustard seed. It is only one grain." There are so many conditioned souls, and these conditioned souls are only insignificant in comparison to the liberated soul. Just imagine what is the quantity of liberated souls.
Bhaktijana: How could we make a poor choice if we were part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa? How could we have chosen the material world?
Prabhupāda: Oh, because you have got independence. Don't you see so many students come, they go away again? Yesterday Kīrtanānanda went to call Rancor. He said, "Oh, I have forgotten this!" So you can forget. There is another student, he was also our student, Wally. "Oh, you can go immediately!" Suppose if you... "Oh, I don't care for this Kṛṣṇa consciousness Society. Who calls you? You can go." That independence is there. We can misuse.
Bhaktijana: But Kṛṣṇa will always be there if we want to go back?
Prabhupāda: Eh? Kṛṣṇa is always prepared to accept you. He's always prepared. But because He has given us independence, we misuse it and we fall under the clutches of māyā. That is our misfortune. We create this misfortune, and we can create our good fortune. "Man is the architect of his own fortune." So if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, it is to your good fortune. If you become māyā conscious, it is to your bad fortune. You are the creator.
Bhaktijana: When the souls that were never conditioned at all..., do they also have the independence?
Prabhupāda: Yes, but they have not misused. They know that "I am meant for Kṛṣṇa's service," and they are happy in Kṛṣṇa's service.
Bhaktijana: Could they ever misuse it?
Prabhupāda: Yes, they can misuse it also. That power is there. Yes?
Devotee: Well, I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets out of the material world and he goes to Kṛṣṇaloka, there's no possibility of falling back.
Prabhupāda: No! There is possibility, but he does not come. Just like after putting your hand in the fire, you never put it again if you are really intelligent. So those who are going back to Godhead, they become intelligent. Why going back to Godhead?
Just like we are in renounced order of life. So we have renounced our family life after thinking something. Now, if somebody comes, "Swāmījī, you take thousand millions of dollar and marry again and become a family man," I'll never become, because I have got my bad experience. I'll never become.
So if one is intelligent enough, if he has got actually the bitter taste of this material world, he'll never agree. He'll never agree. But those who have not advanced to such knowledge, oh, they think, "Oh, this material enjoyment is very nice. Let me taste it and let me do business in my sannyāsī life, and stealthily and privately, let me enjoy." These things are going on. That means they have no taste. They come to hospital-making or this philanthropy. This come again.
Sthānād bhraṣṭād patanty adhaḥ. Ye 'nye aravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. "Those fools who are thinking that 'Simply by thinking myself, "I am God, I am Brahman, I have become liberated," ' " but
[[Someone may say that aside from devotees, who always seek shelter at the Lord's lotus feet, there are those who are not devotees but who have accepted different processes for attaining salvation. What happens to them? In answer to this question, Lord Brahmā and the other demigods said:] O lotus-eyed Lord, although nondevotees who accept severe austerities and penances to achieve the highest position may think themselves liberated, their intelligence is impure. They fall down from their position of imagined superiority because they have no regard for Your lotus feet.]
"But there is no knowledge about You, Kṛṣṇa," āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam, "they, after performing so much austerity and penances, they rise up to the highest position, Brahman realization, but," patanty adhaḥ, "they fall down."
We have got so many instances. They take sannyāsa. They say that
[The spirit soul is truth, and the external energy is untruth.]
"This world is false. Brahman is truth." But after some days, they come to politics, they come to sociology, they come to hospital, they come to this and that. That's all. Finished. Brahman finished. Patanty adhaḥ.
They must fall down, because they have no shelter in Kṛṣṇa. Just like the sputnik goes very high, clap, hear clap. Uh, come down again. Where you'll go? Yes. Simply for the time being clapping [claps], that's all. [laughs] But the fools, they are so nonsense, they are satisfied with that temporary clapping. That's all.
Bhaktijana: Has my soul ever been liberated?
Prabhupāda: That you know. I do not know.
Bhaktijana: If I was once liberated...
Prabhupāda: You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever. You are ever-liberated. That, the sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, this māyā. This is called māyā. Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you.
You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. Don't you sometimes dream that tiger is eating you? Is there any tiger? You are simply thinking. So if you keep in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that nonsense thinking will go away. Therefore we have to keep ourself always in Kṛṣṇa-thinking, so that this dream will never come. If you are always awakened, then dream never comes. So keep yourself always awakened by Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
All right. Distribute prasādam. [end]